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Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

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Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#61

Post by Karunamon »

javert wrote: post #51
rayiner wrote: post #41

I think this is a great answer to people who ask why we still need things like affirmative action. Here you have a continuing demographic phenomenon that can be traced directly back to slave ownership patterns hundreds of years ago. It should be noted also that the black belt is also a terribly poor stretch of the country. Unfortunately, it appears that socioeconomic patterns are imprinted more deeply than anyone wou…

How do you get from "more black people live in areas where there were more productive plantations" to "we need affirmative action"? (The answer is, you don't.)

You started from the wrong conclusion.

The proper way is "patterns ingrained tens, hundreds, thousands of years ago can show tangible effects even in 2012" to "the concept of affirmative action is sound".

Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#62

Post by username3 »

The Republican Party (also called the GOP, for "Grand Old Party") is one of the two major contemporary political parties in the United States, along with the Democratic Party. Founded by anti-slavery activists in 1854, it dominated politics nationally for most of the period from 1860 to 1932.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_(United_States...

Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#64

Post by brudgers »

rabid_fish wrote: post #54
brudgers wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iowa is where Obama upset the presumptive nominee, Hillary Clinton four years ago. It is overwhelmingly made up of a constituencies which tend to vote Republican. Not only did he win the caucuses, he flipped the state in the general election and carried it by a substantial margin in his reelection. If you ever go to Iowa, you won't see many people likely to vote for Obama on the basis of racial affinity.

I can't help but reply to this thread. I grew up in L.A., came to Iowa for college and stayed. Am now in my late 30's. Was not affiliated with any party when I caucused for Obama the first go 'round. Iowa is an interesting political crossroads for the nation. We have a large percentage of the population above 65 - 15% ( http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-09.pdf ) - and still rural - 36% as of 2010 ( ht…

My in-laws are from Kossuth County and I've been there several times. Being of largely homogenous ethnic backgrounds, the indigenous divisions are largely religious and between townships, i.e. one will hear talk about (Roman) Catholic towns and Lutheran towns and how one traditionally drives Chevys and the other Fords (or vice versa).

Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#65

Post by brown9-2 »

I would like to see the red-blue county map compared with a map of how populous those counties are.

Focusing on just the geography of which counties are which color can be very misleading when some counties have a million residents and some have thousands. The focus on county as a unit makes it easy to mistake size of county, and the resulting size of each color, as indicative of the overall vote total.

Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#66

Post by Karunamon »

gadders wrote: post #57
AUmrysh wrote: post #35

I guess the conservatives get to reap what their racist, pro-slavery ancestors sowed.

Wasn't it the Republican party that ended slavery, and the Democratic party that supported it?

The Republican and Democratic parties have shifted their ideals greatly over a few centuries. The founders of the republican party would not recognize (and would likely be repulsed by) the platform and behavior of the modern Republican party. I'd wager the same is true for Democrats.

Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#67

Post by bdunbar »

shantanubala wrote: post #49
rayiner wrote: post #41

I think this is a great answer to people who ask why we still need things like affirmative action. Here you have a continuing demographic phenomenon that can be traced directly back to slave ownership patterns hundreds of years ago. It should be noted also that the black belt is also a terribly poor stretch of the country. Unfortunately, it appears that socioeconomic patterns are imprinted more deeply than anyone wou…

Although I agree with you, I get the impression that someone who doesn't think affirmative action should exist even after learning about the gang violence, intense poverty, substance abuse, neglect, and trauma that surrounds children growing up in housing projects and "bad neighborhoods" -- even after all of that, if someone still says no, then you could probably trace this back to the Big Bang and they'll still say…

The problems you mention were not problems until after affirmative action was implemented.

Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#68

Post by brown9-2 »

gadders wrote: post #57
AUmrysh wrote: post #35

I guess the conservatives get to reap what their racist, pro-slavery ancestors sowed.

Wasn't it the Republican party that ended slavery, and the Democratic party that supported it?

It's a mistake to compare political parties across 150 years of history and assume that nothing has changed in their makeup or beliefs since then. The only thing the parties of 1863 and 2012 have in common is their names.

Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#69

Post by wallawe »

shantanubala wrote: post #49
rayiner wrote: post #41

I think this is a great answer to people who ask why we still need things like affirmative action. Here you have a continuing demographic phenomenon that can be traced directly back to slave ownership patterns hundreds of years ago. It should be noted also that the black belt is also a terribly poor stretch of the country. Unfortunately, it appears that socioeconomic patterns are imprinted more deeply than anyone wou…

Although I agree with you, I get the impression that someone who doesn't think affirmative action should exist even after learning about the gang violence, intense poverty, substance abuse, neglect, and trauma that surrounds children growing up in housing projects and "bad neighborhoods" -- even after all of that, if someone still says no, then you could probably trace this back to the Big Bang and they'll still say…

If you really want to take this line, then you should take action. I am from one of these counties originally, and there is a much larger percentage of the black population working side by side with whites than anywhere you'll find in Silicon Valley. In fact, if this is the mentality that presides, then why aren't there more blacks working at startups in SV or anywhere for that matter?

Edit: It should also be noted that Alabama has no comprehensive fair employment law or specific affirmative action requirements covering public or private employers.

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