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My MacBook keyboard is broken and it's insanely expensive to fix

tobiasberg.net

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Re: My MacBook keyboard is broken and it's insanely expensive to fix

#461

Post by fuzzfactor »

PunchyHamster wrote: post #315
VogonPoetry wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That 2mm uses at least (2*335 + 2*235) * 2mm * 1mm = 2,280 mm^3 more material for the case. (a wall thickness of 1mm)

and less broken devices hitting landfill

That may not even be where the devices are most toxic to the environment :\

How about all the energy waste for manufacture of what are "engineered" as effectively disposable components & assemblies in numerous facilities?

Also scattered local emissions, not only at the factories and delivery ships & trucks, but consumers kick up all kinds of exhaust and waste just earning the money to participate in such a scheme. And way more so for short-lived products that are the least bit overpriced compared to how they could be from the same factory.

Re: My MacBook keyboard is broken and it's insanely expensive to fix

#462

Post by delbronski »

Gigachad wrote: post #84
MostlyStable wrote: post #42

>Here’s hoping governments regulate laptop manufacturers to actually make repairable machines in the future. No, this is a bad solution. If you want a repairable machine, buy one. They exist. Others have already mentioned Framework, but there are other options that aren't that far down the spectrum either. One of the things macbook users praise the most is "build quality", which often means the solidity of the device…

Decades of HN users finger wagging and suggesting FOSS hardware has progressed society nowhere. 12 months from EU mandatory replaceable batteries and products across the industry are being redesigned with repairability, usb-c, and user friendly designs. It’s time to accept regulation actually does work when you have a competent government.

Yes! We tried leaving tech unregulated and it did not work. We got huge monopolies screwing consumers at every turn. Time to try something new.

Re: My MacBook keyboard is broken and it's insanely expensive to fix

#463

Post by braebo »

RajT88 wrote: post #384
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're all problems and they all contribute to the reality of our government being unable to actually do anything beyond tax cuts. * People elect morons because we have been slowly destroying our education system since the 50's and we can barely turn out anyone who can think worth a shit. That's by design, as local elections overwhelmingly swing Republican, and Republicans on balance gain from an ignorant electorate…

Politics is an arm's race. This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but Democrats do all the same things Republicans do. Arguably they differ in how they do it, and how much. Democrats gerrymander, and as well traffic in conspiracy theories for example (the latter they do less than Republicans, but they still do it).

They aren’t even remotely close to being the same at this point.

Re: My MacBook keyboard is broken and it's insanely expensive to fix

#464

Post by piekvorst »

eszed wrote: post #373
piekvorst wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why market participants are being given special treatment here. There are laws, and they must be followed. Laws are contextual, they depend on more fundamental principles. A regulation that says "you must use this specific screw size" isn't a law in the same sense as "you shall not murder." When a "law" violates the principle of non-initiation of force, when it tells a manufacturer how to exercise his property righ…

Yeah, that guy got unnecessarily personal. Let me try. You're right that civil judgements (and, though you haven't mentioned it yet, reputational brand damage through public exposure) are important checks on harm, but they break down in particular circumstances. In the first place, they're not a fair fight: corporations are able to limit, or even prevent, access to the court system by forced arbitration, jurisdiction…

I don't know the precise legal mechanisms for handling diffuse harms like the ones you describe. Determining the best means of applying the principle of suing corporations in practice is an very complex question that belongs to the philosophy of law. My task here is only to establish the nature of the principle and to show that it is practicable.

That said, here is my principle: at any time, the government is orders of magnitude more powerful than any corporation. I think it is proper, in some cases, for the government itself to act as a plaintiff, to aggregate evidence, bring suit, and prove causation statistically. I can't delimit that role precisely, but I side with you that in some cases only the government has access to all necessary evidence.

And no, I don't agree with the idea of "public interest." Any claim that "the public interest" supersedes private rights means that the interests of some men are to be sacrificed to the interests of others.

Re: My MacBook keyboard is broken and it's insanely expensive to fix

#465

Post by fragmede »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #453
1718627440 wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The theory was that the airwaves belong to the public and the FCC has jurisdiction. Now most things go over the shared network (InterNet) so that problem should have fixed it self, no?

Airwaves are limited resource - especially spectrum suitable for broadcast. Two companies can’t share the same broadcast spectrum. The Internet is not a limited resource and not owned by the public and licensed to broadcasters. More than one company can lay cable. Do you really want the government policing what can be said on the internet?

It does already. Section 230 in the US isn't an unlimited get out of jail free card. Other countries have varying amount of policing, with differing levels of success and corruption. Spain, the UK, and China all come to mind here.

Re: My MacBook keyboard is broken and it's insanely expensive to fix

#466

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

fuzzfactor wrote: post #456
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And making them more repairable as someone else said has tradeoffs. It’s not like Apple is the low cost leader. Choose another vendor

Engineering failures relating to repairability defects are some of the most annoying. OTOH they can be a major pillar in a well-orchestrated anti-reuse, anti-recycling, anti-environmental money machine for some manufacturers. >Choose another vendor Good advice, I already did once Woz left ;)

Or just pay $70 a year for Apple Care like I did for my M2 MacBook Air and not worry about it…

Re: My MacBook keyboard is broken and it's insanely expensive to fix

#467

Post by [deleted] »

piekvorst wrote: post #241
ahf8Aithaex7Nai wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not a bureaucratic agency that preemptively dictates production methods on the assumption that every manufacturer is a potential prisoner. I see it exactly the other way around. I want this to be clarified upfront, not after I’ve already cut my tongue. What I don’t understand is why market participants are being given special treatment here. There are laws, and they must be followed. That applies just as much in ot…

> why market participants are being given special treatment here. There are laws, and they must be followed. Laws are contextual, they depend on more fundamental principles. A regulation that says "you must use this specific screw size" isn't a law in the same sense as "you shall not murder." When a "law" violates the principle of non-initiation of force, when it tells a manufacturer how to exercise his property righ…

[deleted]

Re: My MacBook keyboard is broken and it's insanely expensive to fix

#468

Post by Tempest1981 »

bonyt wrote: post #43

I replaced the keyboard MacBook Air M1 keyboard with a $20 model from Amazon and it's been going strong for a full year. I had spilled ginger ale on the original. The board is riveted in, but there are enough screws to hold the replacement in place. Removing the board is a shockingly violent process, but it worked for me. Keyboard: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CQBVMM3X (price has gone up). Video of rivets breaking: ht…

> I missed a screw and slightly cut my hand here too

After a nasty gash from a washing machine, which impacted my typing for a week, I got a pair of these:

https://www.amazon.com/Mechanix-Wear-Utility-Gloves-Large/dp... $14, may save a doctor visit

Re: My MacBook keyboard is broken and it's insanely expensive to fix

#469

Post by eszed »

piekvorst wrote: post #464
eszed wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that guy got unnecessarily personal. Let me try. You're right that civil judgements (and, though you haven't mentioned it yet, reputational brand damage through public exposure) are important checks on harm, but they break down in particular circumstances. In the first place, they're not a fair fight: corporations are able to limit, or even prevent, access to the court system by forced arbitration, jurisdiction…

I don't know the precise legal mechanisms for handling diffuse harms like the ones you describe. Determining the best means of applying the principle of suing corporations in practice is an very complex question that belongs to the philosophy of law. My task here is only to establish the nature of the principle and to show that it is practicable. That said, here is my principle: at any time, the government is orders…

> the government is orders of magnitude more powerful than any corporation.

As a practical matter, that's untrue in many, many places around the world, and there are no reasons why it couldn't become true in the USA, or any other advanced democracy. Even if you don't think that is yet the case where you live, can you at least agree with me that many leaders of / investors in large corporations want it to be, and are working towards that end?

I think your position in your second paragraph is at odds with your position in the third.

Re: My MacBook keyboard is broken and it's insanely expensive to fix

#470

Post by fuzzfactor »

wolvoleo wrote: post #256
MostlyStable wrote: post #42

>Here’s hoping governments regulate laptop manufacturers to actually make repairable machines in the future. No, this is a bad solution. If you want a repairable machine, buy one. They exist. Others have already mentioned Framework, but there are other options that aren't that far down the spectrum either. One of the things macbook users praise the most is "build quality", which often means the solidity of the device…

> No, this is a bad solution. If you want a repairable machine, buy one. It's a good solution. Even if you don't want to repair your meachine, it would be worth more on the second-hand market meaning less ewaste for society in general. > One of the things macbook users praise the most is "build quality", which often means the solidity of the device, lack of flex, etc. These quality features are, in part, achieved by…

Before Apple ever came along, failure to engineer in all kinds of extreme repairability was a recognized hallmark of unsuitability for mission-critical applications. Widely distributed repair manuals were of course table-stakes too.

Woz was well-aware of this from HP's legendary performance at the time.

It's just not easy to stay on the most correct path when there are so many shiny distractions.

Now the Neo sounds like a step in the right direction.

>one of the most repairable macs in decades.

With the Neo they could be jumping right back on the right path from a distance. Which is an improvement but it does also show they could have been doing it the entire time if they had the serious commitment to mission-critical users.

The only real way for it to be a game-changer is if they actually change their game :)

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