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New Washington state law bans noncompete agreements

seattletimes.com

21–30 of 129 posts

Re: New Washington state law bans noncompete agreements

#21

It always baffles me how much resistance there is to banning noncompetes every time this is proposed, and how that resistance lives right alongside “we want to be the next Silicon Valley”, even though pretty much every analysis of “what’s Silicon Valley’s secret sauce” cites the unenforceability of noncompetes as one of the most important factors. But maybe the ship is turning very slowly.

Is there actually substantial resistance to this? Or just a few manufactured counter-arguments from news outlets trying to do a both-sides take on this? Non-competes have been heavily limited or outright voided in California. That's an easy and obvious rebuttal to the Silicon Valley argument.

Yes. The US Chamber of Commerce is particularly noteworthy in their attempts to slow the deployment of this policy at scale. They of course act on behalf of their members as a reputational laundering operation, so their members do not have to engage in this lobbying directly (potentially exposing them to reputational risk).

U.S. Chamber of Commerce and business groups file lawsuit challenging FTC noncompete ban - https://www.fmglaw.com/employment-law-blog-us/u-s-chamber-of... - April 26th, 2024

> Less than 24 hours later, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, Business Roundtable, the Texas Association of Business, and the Longview Chamber of Commerce filed a lawsuit against the FTC in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Texas alleging that the consumer protection agency lacks the authority to issue rules that define unfair methods of competition, and instead, the FTC Act only allows it to bring cases challenging particular practices. The Chamber’s Complaint also contends that even if the FTC possessed such authority, the “noncompete rule would still be unlawful because noncompete agreements are not categorically unlawful under Section 5.” The lawsuit further argues that the rule is “impermissibly retroactive” and reflects an “arbitrary and capricious exercise” of the FTC’s power.

> The Chamber of Commerce is seeking an order “vacating and setting aside the noncompete rule in its entirety” and an order permanently enjoining the FTC from enforcing the rule. The plaintiffs are also seeking an order to delay the effective date and implementation of the noncompete ban until the conclusion of the case.

Re: New Washington state law bans noncompete agreements

#22
It’s not the noncompetes that’s the problem, it’s confidentiality agreements with extremely broad language.

Learn about the legal principle of “inevitable disclosure”. It’s the idea you can’t work for a competitor because you can’t help yourself but violate an NDA

Re: New Washington state law bans noncompete agreements

#23

The flip side should be considered as well. There should be some sort of protection for small startup companies. A big company should not be able to steal an innovative startup's technology by hiring away the employees that worked on the product. That used to happen a lot when Bill Gates was running Microsoft, for example. Patents provide some protection, but it is flawed because a big company can put you out of busi…

Companies need to put more care into who they trust, and maybe incentivize skin in the game. If leaving for a competitor means you lose equity, agency, ownership, or some intangible, that can outweigh bigger paychecks.

The market should be able to solve this problem without the government setting arbitrary rules, and people should be allowed to sign contracts that limit or restrict their freedom, so long as it involves informed consent from all parties.

If Microsoft wants to hire an AI expert for a million dollars a year, and restrict him from competing for 2 years after leaving Microsoft so as to avoid losing market advantage, that seems like a reasonable thing for Microsoft to want. If all Apple has to do to get all the Copilot secrets is hire the chief copilot engineer for 1.5 million, seems like that creates a toxic dynamic and all but guarantees acquihires and a near immediate turnaround in a startup to corporate pipeline for raiding IP.

Maybe we should be limiting businesses to doing business at a scale they can responsibly handle. If you can't get human customer service for your computer issues because Windows and Mac have scaled far beyond the number of users they could ever hope to handle, maybe that market needs regulation, and unless they scale customer service accordingly, they don't get to target a majority of the world's population as their customer base?

That'd certainly create jobs and opportunities for Linux and induce a revolution in software markets, and it'd limit the incentives for MS and Apple and big tech to do shitty things to suppress the markets overall.

Re: New Washington state law bans noncompete agreements

#24

The flip side should be considered as well. There should be some sort of protection for small startup companies. A big company should not be able to steal an innovative startup's technology by hiring away the employees that worked on the product. That used to happen a lot when Bill Gates was running Microsoft, for example. Patents provide some protection, but it is flawed because a big company can put you out of busi…

acquhire practicies show that yes - sometimes people really ARE the company. However, i think for the average C# developer, or Epson printer specialist or wordpress or Bosch controller analyst, these arent really true.

Re: New Washington state law bans noncompete agreements

#25
post #8
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-competes are almost always unenforceable. Never take money (although even then, they're still mostly useless), and just ignore them and no one is going to do anything. That was what my business law professor taught us. No court is going to enforce a non-compete if it means the person who cannot compete is going to be unable to support themselves. The only time it'll be enforced is if you're already independently…

I know at least one person who joined a Michigan startup, moved over, got sued by non compete, and the new employer just didnt want any hassle and laid them off. This person had to leave country then. The take home is dont take tech jobs in states where non-compete clauses are still legal.

Sue them back. Represent yourself. Get compensatory damages. They will lose unless you can support yourself. Do you think any state is going to let someone go on unemployment and withdraw from the public dole just because some private company wants to gain some competitive advantage. Lol

But I do agree in general, never take compensation upon leaving a company, for whatever reason. Then everything is certainly unenforceable.

As for leaving the country... even if a non-compete is found to be enforceable (due to you being self-sufficient, or sufficently compensated), then the scope cannot be country wide. It has to be limited to a particular reasonable geography and a particular reasonable field.

Re: New Washington state law bans noncompete agreements

#26

The flip side should be considered as well. There should be some sort of protection for small startup companies. A big company should not be able to steal an innovative startup's technology by hiring away the employees that worked on the product. That used to happen a lot when Bill Gates was running Microsoft, for example. Patents provide some protection, but it is flawed because a big company can put you out of busi…

No big company is going to bother poaching that way. They are either going to purchase the company outright or undercut them with their own competing product to kill it off through attrition. We're not in the 2010's anymore where people are banging at the door for singular SWE's.

Re: New Washington state law bans noncompete agreements

#27

It’s not the noncompetes that’s the problem, it’s confidentiality agreements with extremely broad language. Learn about the legal principle of “inevitable disclosure”. It’s the idea you can’t work for a competitor because you can’t help yourself but violate an NDA

Inevitably, it's just the need for lawyers to intervene in "common sense" negotiations. It's never legal to do X, Y, Z, but if the business has all the lawyers and the employee has non, then it doesn't really matter whats legal; it's whose willing to exhaust the cash to fight the issue.

Which of course, is why unions are what's needed to properly negotiate employee-employer relationships, the same way a strong government is needed to negotiate corporate-civil relationships.

Americans, however, have decided that "individual freedom" is _soooooo_ valuable, that it only exists for people with enough cash to defend it.

Re: New Washington state law bans noncompete agreements

#29

The flip side should be considered as well. There should be some sort of protection for small startup companies. A big company should not be able to steal an innovative startup's technology by hiring away the employees that worked on the product. That used to happen a lot when Bill Gates was running Microsoft, for example. Patents provide some protection, but it is flawed because a big company can put you out of busi…

Companies need to put more care into who they trust, and maybe incentivize skin in the game. If leaving for a competitor means you lose equity, agency, ownership, or some intangible, that can outweigh bigger paychecks. The market should be able to solve this problem without the government setting arbitrary rules, and people should be allowed to sign contracts that limit or restrict their freedom, so long as it involv…

The solution here in finance is garden leave, where people are contractually barred from competing with their former employer during a period for which they are compensated as if they were fully employed!
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