Bird brains (2023) • Hacker News Board

Re: Bird brains (2023)

#71

Post by pegasus » Mon, Mar 30, 2026, 3:59 PM UTC

jayers wrote: post #13

small_model wrote: post #10

Given parrots can talk, there must be a neuron count that activates language (assuming anatomy allows it), similar to LLM parameter count.

That seems like an unfounded inference. Plenty of animals have more neurons than humans but lesser cognitive and language abilities. Language has lot to do with structure of the brain in addition to neuron count.

One thing I've learned by following a link from elsewhere in this thread is that while the total count of neurons in an animal's nervous system is not a good proxy for intelligence, the count of neurons in the forebrain is. By that measure, only the orca ranks higher than humans [1].

That doesn't mean language ability is a natural outcome of crossing a certain threshold of brain complexity; if anything it's more likely the other way around: this complexity being be driven by highly social behavior and communication.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_by_number_of_n...

Re: Bird brains (2023)

#72

Post by yieldcrv » Mon, Mar 30, 2026, 3:59 PM UTC

tokai wrote: post #28

yieldcrv wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The prevailing research is “more neurons = intelligence” And that doesn’t make any sense, unless there really is no configuration necessary octopi bucking that trend is an example we need

No its pretty well understood that brain size in it self doesn't signify intelligence, even if correcting for body size. Density, connectedness, and complexity are important. Modeling the information processing capacity of animal brains it is shown that smaller brain like those of octopi and corvides are highly capable despite a relative low neuron count compared to humans.

I’d be interested in crafting a more neural optimal, less resource intensive human

Re: Bird brains (2023)

#73

Post by justonceokay » Mon, Mar 30, 2026, 4:01 PM UTC

awsanswers wrote: post #69

If you're in tune with animals and spend time around a parrot, it's obvious there is a lot going on in their minds. They have incredible memories and their own understanding of their world. It looks simple to us but they are not simple creatures. That being said, I don't know how a bird lover can keep a bird in a cage.

I feel similarly about cats. I absolutely love cats but I didn’t have one for five years because I refuse to own one in an apartment. It seems like people torture animals to make sure that they have some attention when they get home

Re: Bird brains (2023)

#74

Post by stronglikedan » Mon, Mar 30, 2026, 4:02 PM UTC

awsanswers wrote: post #69

If you're in tune with animals and spend time around a parrot, it's obvious there is a lot going on in their minds. They have incredible memories and their own understanding of their world. It looks simple to us but they are not simple creatures. That being said, I don't know how a bird lover can keep a bird in a cage.

> I don't know how a bird lover can keep a bird in a cage

I'm convinced that people that keep (uninjured) birds in cages are narcissistic sociopaths. This is based on the conversations that I've had with them about it. Life's too short to deal with people like that. I'm thankful for the indicator to avoid them, but I'm sad that it's at the expense of a bird.

Re: Bird brains (2023)

#75

Post by aidenn0 » Mon, Mar 30, 2026, 4:05 PM UTC

Sharlin wrote: post #64

Makes sense, given that to birds, optimizing for weight is everything. But seeing that the ridiculously smart border collies have a comparatively low density of neurons, clearly there’s more to intelligence than that.

I've not spent significant time with border collies, but I'd say that if I had to rank, multiple species of corvids are smarter than german shepherds (a breed I'm more familiar with).

Re: Bird brains (2023)

#76

Post by deaddodo » Mon, Mar 30, 2026, 4:09 PM UTC

justonceokay wrote: post #73

awsanswers wrote: post #69

If you're in tune with animals and spend time around a parrot, it's obvious there is a lot going on in their minds. They have incredible memories and their own understanding of their world. It looks simple to us but they are not simple creatures. That being said, I don't know how a bird lover can keep a bird in a cage.

I feel similarly about cats. I absolutely love cats but I didn’t have one for five years because I refuse to own one in an apartment. It seems like people torture animals to make sure that they have some attention when they get home

A decently sized apartment is fine for most cats, psychologically. I don't know where you get "torture" from. What's most important is stimuli such as scratching posts, toys, etc. Otherwise, they're insanely copacetic to the point many "house" cats don't want to leave the home even when being dragged out.

Now, putting a dog in an apartment, especially when you're unable to give them constant exercise and attention. That's bordering on cruel.

That all being said, every animal has it's own personality. So it's best to match them with an environment that fits their personal needs.

Re: Bird brains (2023)

#77

Post by a_t48 » Mon, Mar 30, 2026, 4:10 PM UTC

justonceokay wrote: post #73

awsanswers wrote: post #69

If you're in tune with animals and spend time around a parrot, it's obvious there is a lot going on in their minds. They have incredible memories and their own understanding of their world. It looks simple to us but they are not simple creatures. That being said, I don't know how a bird lover can keep a bird in a cage.

I feel similarly about cats. I absolutely love cats but I didn’t have one for five years because I refuse to own one in an apartment. It seems like people torture animals to make sure that they have some attention when they get home

What difference would a house make here? A yard?

Re: Bird brains (2023)

#78

Post by soopypoos » Mon, Mar 30, 2026, 4:10 PM UTC

justonceokay wrote: post #73

awsanswers wrote: post #69

If you're in tune with animals and spend time around a parrot, it's obvious there is a lot going on in their minds. They have incredible memories and their own understanding of their world. It looks simple to us but they are not simple creatures. That being said, I don't know how a bird lover can keep a bird in a cage.

I feel similarly about cats. I absolutely love cats but I didn’t have one for five years because I refuse to own one in an apartment. It seems like people torture animals to make sure that they have some attention when they get home

But then you did get one?

Re: Bird brains (2023)

#79

Post by soopypoos » Mon, Mar 30, 2026, 4:12 PM UTC

a_t48 wrote: post #77

justonceokay wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel similarly about cats. I absolutely love cats but I didn’t have one for five years because I refuse to own one in an apartment. It seems like people torture animals to make sure that they have some attention when they get home

What difference would a house make here? A yard?

cats hate stairs

Re: Bird brains (2023)

#80

Post by krona » Mon, Mar 30, 2026, 4:13 PM UTC

awsanswers wrote: post #69

If you're in tune with animals and spend time around a parrot, it's obvious there is a lot going on in their minds. They have incredible memories and their own understanding of their world. It looks simple to us but they are not simple creatures. That being said, I don't know how a bird lover can keep a bird in a cage.

Many animals (including birds, dogs, horses) like the sanctuary and comfort of a cage and choose to use them, but obviously it shouldn't be used like a prison.