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Mathematical methods and human thought in the age of AI

arxiv.org

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Re: Mathematical methods and human thought in the age of AI

#11

Post by jebarker »

sendes wrote: post #9

> We assert that artificial intelligence is a natural evolution of human tools. While nowhere in the paper this is actually asserted but the abstract, a whiggish narrative of a genuinely unprecedented technology --such that it can replace and supersede human "labour" altogether (one is reminded of The Evolution of Human Science by Ted Chiang)-- sounds naive at best, dangerous at worst.

I don’t see why “natural evolution of human tools” implies “such that it can replace and supersede human labor altogether”. Can you clarify?

Re: Mathematical methods and human thought in the age of AI

#12

Post by Izikiel43 »

woolion wrote: post #7

> We assert that artificial intelligence is a natural evolution of human tools developed throughout history to facilitate the creation, organization, and dissemination of ideas, and argue that it is paramount that the development and application of AI remain fundamentally human-centered. While this is a noble goal, it seems obvious that this isn't how it usually goes. For instance, "free market" is often used as a do…

Globalization was great for poor countries, not so much developed economies.

Re: Mathematical methods and human thought in the age of AI

#13

Post by GodelNumbering »

> Today, unlike in the Luddites’ time, we are already seeing skilled workers replaced not with lower-wage human labor, but with AI.

To me this is the weakest claim of the article. This claim been thrown around endlessly without proof.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IHLIDXUSTPSOFTDEVE

Software Engineer job openings for instance is at 2 year high (still far lower than covid dislocations though), but arguably all Enterprise AI was built or deployed in the last two years. We should have seen a crash in the job openings if the AI job replacement claim was correct.

This is something I've spend some time thinking about (personally written article, not AI slop): https://www.signalbloom.ai/posts/why-task-proficiency-doesnt...

Re: Mathematical methods and human thought in the age of AI

#14

Post by sendes »

jebarker wrote: post #11
sendes wrote: post #9

> We assert that artificial intelligence is a natural evolution of human tools. While nowhere in the paper this is actually asserted but the abstract, a whiggish narrative of a genuinely unprecedented technology --such that it can replace and supersede human "labour" altogether (one is reminded of The Evolution of Human Science by Ted Chiang)-- sounds naive at best, dangerous at worst.

I don’t see why “natural evolution of human tools” implies “such that it can replace and supersede human labor altogether”. Can you clarify?

A common error in historical thinking tends to see human tools essentially as a positive linear plot between time and progress. But these tools until AI had the common property of being enhancing of human cognition, because they couldn't do the thinking _for you_. AI can do just that, and for all the benefit it brings, seeing it simply as the next step in the "natural evolution of human tools" is alarmingly disarming coming from frontier thinkers.

Re: Mathematical methods and human thought in the age of AI

#15

Post by Zigurd »

sendes wrote: post #9

> We assert that artificial intelligence is a natural evolution of human tools. While nowhere in the paper this is actually asserted but the abstract, a whiggish narrative of a genuinely unprecedented technology --such that it can replace and supersede human "labour" altogether (one is reminded of The Evolution of Human Science by Ted Chiang)-- sounds naive at best, dangerous at worst.

I'm glad I can still count on HN to come across the correct use of a lesser known definition of a word.

Re: Mathematical methods and human thought in the age of AI

#17

Post by js8 »

Izikiel43 wrote: post #12
woolion wrote: post #7

> We assert that artificial intelligence is a natural evolution of human tools developed throughout history to facilitate the creation, organization, and dissemination of ideas, and argue that it is paramount that the development and application of AI remain fundamentally human-centered. While this is a noble goal, it seems obvious that this isn't how it usually goes. For instance, "free market" is often used as a do…

Globalization was great for poor countries, not so much developed economies.

No it wasn't. Look at Joseph Stiglitz (Globalization and Its Discontents) and Ha-Joon Chang (Bad Samaritans, Kicking Away the Ladder) for counter-examples.

Re: Mathematical methods and human thought in the age of AI

#18

Post by bonoboTP »

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #8
BDPW wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Physical classrooms don't really scale either, is that really a fundamental problem?

Indeed. Education isn't supposed to "scale". We've mucked around with education so much and subjected it to tech fad after tech fad that we hardly have anything resembling education. Because this has been going on so long, most people's reference point for what constitutes "education" is simply off , mistaking "training" or something like that for it. But the purpose of education is intellectual formation, the abilit…

There are simply not enough teachers who can provide such an ideal, imagined education, at least not for the current rate of teacher salaries (and it's very far off). The educational strategy has to scale to real people, real teachers and real students as they are in the flesh, not some ivory tower pipe dream. We've had decades of this "we should teach how to think, not what to think".

Alternatively,if you don't care about scale, as in rolling out a system to the population at large, then yeah, this kind of advanced education exists, it's just very selective and is in advanced extracurricular or obtained through private tutors.

Re: Mathematical methods and human thought in the age of AI

#19

Post by bonoboTP »

BDPW wrote: post #6
gradstudent wrote: post #5

I skimmed the paper a couple of times, hoping to find the promised (from the abstract) > pathway to integrating AI into our most challenging and intellectually rigorous fields to the benefit of all humankind. There's very little insight here though. It seems mostly a retread of conversations we've been having in the academic community for a few years now. In particular, I was hoping to see some discussion of how we m…

Physical classrooms don't really scale either, is that really a fundamental problem?

Yes. Tools like Khan Academy help lots of talented kids to progress in the curriculum beyond what's available in physical classrooms available to them.
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