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ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

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Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#501

Post by kneel25 »

foresterre wrote: post #384
tedsanders wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, the big AI companies do have opt out mechanisms for scraping and search. OpenAI documents how to opt out of scraping here: https://developers.openai.com/api/docs/bots Anthropic documents how to opt out of scraping here: https://privacy.claude.com/en/articles/8896518-does-anthropi... I'm not sure if Gemini lets you opt out without also delisting you from Google search rankings.

I think opt-outs are a bit backwards, ethically speaking. Instead of asking for permission, they take unless you tell them to no longer do it from now on. I can imagine their models have been trained on a lot of websites before opt outs became a thing, and the models will probably incorporate that for forever. But at least for websites there's an opt-out, even if only for the big AI companies. Open source code never…

> a lot of websites

It was a dataset of the entirety of the public internet from the very beginning that bypassed paywalls etc, there’s virtually nothing they haven’t scraped.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#502

Post by ryanmcbride »

MyNameIsNickT wrote: post #49

Hey! I'm Nick, and I work on Integrity at OpenAI. These checks are part of how we protect our first-party products from abuse like bots, scraping, fraud, and other attempts to misuse the platform. A big reason we invest in this is because we want to keep free and logged-out access available for more users. My team’s goal is to help make sure the limited GPU resources are going to real users. We also keep a very close…

Protecting your site from bots and scraping is absolutely hilarious considering how you acquired (read: stole) the data you trained your bot on dude.

Just yank that ladder up behind you.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#503

Post by pocksuppet »

1718627440 wrote: post #460
PunchyHamster wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Scraping static content from a website at near-zero marginal cost to its server, vs scraping an expensive LLM service provided for free, are different things. I bet people being fucking DDOSed by AI bots disagree Also the fucking ignorance assuming it's "static content" and not something needing code running

Off topic, but why is a DoS something considered to act on, often by just shutting down the service altogether? That results in the same DoS just by the operator than due to congestion. Actually it's worse, because now the requests will never actually be responded rather then after some delay. Why is the default not to just don't do anything?

It keeps the other projects hosted on the same server or network online. Blackhole routes are pushed upstream to the really big networks and they push them to their edge routers, so traffic to the affected IPs is dropped near the sender's ISP and doesn't cause network congestion.

DDoSers who really want to cause damage now target random IPs in the same network as their actual target. That way, it can't be blackholed without blackholing the entire hosting provider.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#504

Post by genthree »

scq wrote: post #202
brigandish wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does not, in the seeming absence of other snappy examples and the overwhelming evidence of many, many slow React apps, the exception prove the rule?

There are plenty of snappy examples. Off the top of my head: Discord, Netflix, Signal Desktop, WhatsApp Web.

Those are all really poorly-performing.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#505

Post by gruez »

scared_together wrote: post #284
gruez wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's getting to the point where a user needs at minimum two browsers. One to allow all this horrendous client checking so that crucial services work, and another browser to attempt to prevent tracking users across the web. What are you talking about? It works fine with firefox with RFP and VPN enabled, which is already more paranoid than the average configuration. There are definitely sites where this configuration…

Is your interlocutor barking up the wrong tree, or are you missing the forest for the trees? According to the OP: > The program checks 55 properties spanning three layers: your browser (GPU, screen, fonts), the Cloudflare network (your city, your IP, your region from edge headers), and the ChatGPT React application itself (__reactRouterContext, loaderData, clientBootstrap). I guess Firefox VPN will hide the IP at lea…

>But what about the other data, is it faked by RFP?

Yes, RFP spoofs or at least somewhat obfuscates/normalizes GPU/screen/font info. The rest are integrity validations of the server/app, and not really identifying in any way.

>You might be fingerprinted by OpenAI right now, as “that guy with all the Firefox anti-fingerprinting stuff enabled, even though it breaks other sites”.

I'm not sure what the broader point you're trying to make here is. Is fingerprinting bad? Yes. All things being equal, I'd rather not have it than have it, but at the same time it's not realistic to expect openai to serve anonymous requests from anyone. Back when chatgpt was first launched you had to sign up and verify your phone number. Compared to mandatory logins, fingerprinting is definitely the lesser evil here.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#506

Post by pocksuppet »

ryanmcbride wrote: post #502
MyNameIsNickT wrote: post #49

Hey! I'm Nick, and I work on Integrity at OpenAI. These checks are part of how we protect our first-party products from abuse like bots, scraping, fraud, and other attempts to misuse the platform. A big reason we invest in this is because we want to keep free and logged-out access available for more users. My team’s goal is to help make sure the limited GPU resources are going to real users. We also keep a very close…

Protecting your site from bots and scraping is absolutely hilarious considering how you acquired (read: stole) the data you trained your bot on dude. Just yank that ladder up behind you.

> Just yank that ladder up behind you.

You would be an irresponsible entrepreneur if you didn't. Don't forget your legal obligation to maximise shareholder value.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#507

Post by pocksuppet »

aucisson_masque wrote: post #449
MyNameIsNickT wrote: post #49

Hey! I'm Nick, and I work on Integrity at OpenAI. These checks are part of how we protect our first-party products from abuse like bots, scraping, fraud, and other attempts to misuse the platform. A big reason we invest in this is because we want to keep free and logged-out access available for more users. My team’s goal is to help make sure the limited GPU resources are going to real users. We also keep a very close…

Why send the Turnstile bytecode encrypted ? Surely people savvy enough to abuse the system will find out how to decrypt it, see OP, and it gives the impression that you are trying to hide stuffs you're not proud about.

Because they want to make it as hard as possible to reverse engineer. If they wanted it to be easy, they'd use I am a human

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#508

Post by pocksuppet »

gck1 wrote: post #308
MyNameIsNickT wrote: post #49

Hey! I'm Nick, and I work on Integrity at OpenAI. These checks are part of how we protect our first-party products from abuse like bots, scraping, fraud, and other attempts to misuse the platform. A big reason we invest in this is because we want to keep free and logged-out access available for more users. My team’s goal is to help make sure the limited GPU resources are going to real users. We also keep a very close…

I always wondered why you even have logged out access. I'm glad I can use ChatGPT in incognito when I want a "clean room" response, but surely that's not the primary use case. Is user base that never logs in really that significant?

This episode proves they know who you are, even when you're logged out. If they didn't know, they wouldn't let you use the service.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#509

Post by susupro1 »

Bilal_io wrote: post #300
eru wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I bet people being fucking DDOSed by AI bots disagree Are you sure it's a DDoS and not just a DoS?

Uncoordinated DDoS, when multiple search and AI companies are hammering your server.

[dead]

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#510

Post by pocksuppet »

voxic11 wrote: post #8
superkuh wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't look like it in the full sense of "free". But part of how one pays these services is by running a permissive modern browser which allows the corporation to spy on you even when you already paid in currency. In a sense by depriving them of the ability to easily spy on your this workaround is closer to "free".

But isn't ChatGPT access free through the browser? What do you mean already paid in currency?

If you want to send more than a few prompts each day, you have to pay. With currency.
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