Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

buchodi.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

481–490 of 668 posts

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#481

Post by amluto »

weird-eye-issue wrote: post #409
zdragnar wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hence he number of DOM elements stayed constant no matter how far you scroll and the only thing that grows is the Y coordinate. This is generally called virtual scrolling, and it is not only an option in many common table libraries, but there are plenty of standalone implementations and other libraries (lists and things) that offer it. The technique certainly didn't originate with Netflix.

Yes, tables and lists, since they have a fixed height per item/row. Chat messages don't have a fixed height so its more difficult. And by more difficult I mean that every single virtual paging library that I've looked at in the past would not work.

But they do have constant height in the sense that, unless you resize the window horizontally, the height doesn’t change.

For what it’s worth, modern browsers can render absurdly large plain HTML+CSS documents fairly well except perhaps for a slow initial load as long as the contents are boring enough. Chat messages are pretty boring.

I have a diagnostic webpage that is a few million lines long. I could get fancy and optimize it, but it more or less just works, even on mobile.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#482

Post by MisterTea »

MyNameIsNickT wrote: post #49

Hey! I'm Nick, and I work on Integrity at OpenAI. These checks are part of how we protect our first-party products from abuse like bots, scraping, fraud, and other attempts to misuse the platform. A big reason we invest in this is because we want to keep free and logged-out access available for more users. My team’s goal is to help make sure the limited GPU resources are going to real users. We also keep a very close…

> These checks are part of how we protect our first-party products from abuse like bots, scraping, fraud, and other attempts to misuse the platform.

Isn't this the same behavior used by AI companies to gather training data? Pot, meet kettle.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#483

Post by robmccoll »

dgb23 wrote: post #474

Why are companies like OpenAI and others that are all-in on LLMs still using ReactJS, Python and so on? These programming languages and frameworks were made for developer convenience and got wide adoption, because it makes on-boarding easier. This obviously comes at a cost of performance, complexity and introduces a liability into a system, because they are dependencies that come with a whole bunch of assumptions abo…

Probably training data. The largest number of public repos are built on that stack. We recently picked React for new projects because LLMs seemed to be the most reliable when writing React code.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#485

Post by deadbabe »

vlovich123 wrote: post #295
MyNameIsNickT wrote: post #49

Hey! I'm Nick, and I work on Integrity at OpenAI. These checks are part of how we protect our first-party products from abuse like bots, scraping, fraud, and other attempts to misuse the platform. A big reason we invest in this is because we want to keep free and logged-out access available for more users. My team’s goal is to help make sure the limited GPU resources are going to real users. We also keep a very close…

That still doesn’t explain why you can’t even start typing until that check proceeds. You could condition the outbound request from being processed until that’s the case. But preventing from typing seems like it’s just worse UX and the problem will fail to appear in any metrics you can track because you have no way of measuring “how quickly would the user have submitted their request without all this other stuff in t…

Remember you’re talking to a vibe coder who just stares at code being printed out by AI.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#486

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

stefanka wrote: post #400
tomalbrc wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"bro": https://www.businessinsider.com/openai-anthropic-ai-ignore-r...

The article is from 2024. Is this still happening?

Do we have any evidence they started complying?

If not, we can conclude they did not, until such evidence shows up.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#487

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

wilg wrote: post #274
tomalbrc wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"bro": https://www.businessinsider.com/openai-anthropic-ai-ignore-r...

should be pretty easy to test and not rely on an anonymous source from a weird analytics company via business insider. are these bots actually from openai or are they just using their user agent? are they coming from openai ip ranges? etc. https://openai.com/gptbot.json

> should be pretty easy to test

I look forward to your results, whether or not they disprove the article.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#488

Post by 0x3f »

crote wrote: post #313
tshaddox wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that there probably is no way in principle to distinguish between a human user utilizing automation on their own behalf in good faith (e.g. RSS readers) and bad faith automations.

That's a feature, not a bug. A human is personally responsible for a bot acting on their behalf. If your bot behaves, nothing is going to happen. If you keep handing out your personal keys to shitty misbehaving bots, then you will personally get banned - which gives you a pretty good incentive to be a bit more discerning about the bots you use.

Yes, everything should just be agnostic, as long as the incentives work out it's all fine. Like if we had worked out micropayments for the web (not saying that's a good idea per se), then who cares if you're a bot or a human when you're paying a toll either way? Flipping it to be a cost rather than payment is functionally equivalent.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#489

Post by nikitaga »

PunchyHamster wrote: post #256
nikitaga wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scraping static content from a website at near-zero marginal cost to its server, vs scraping an expensive LLM service provided for free, are different things. The former relies on fairly controversial ideas about copyright and fair use to qualify as abuse, whereas the latter is direct financial damage – by your own direct competitors no less. It's fun to poke at a seeming hypocrisy of the big bad, but the similarity…

> Scraping static content from a website at near-zero marginal cost to its server, vs scraping an expensive LLM service provided for free, are different things. I bet people being fucking DDOSed by AI bots disagree Also the fucking ignorance assuming it's "static content" and not something needing code running

All this reactionary outrage in the comments is funny. And lame.

Yes, for the vast majority of the internet, serving traffic is near zero marginal cost. Not for LLMs though – those requests are orders of magnitude more expensive.

This isn't controversial at all, it's a well understood fact, outside of this irrationally angry thread at least. I don't know, maybe you don't understand the economic term "marginal cost", thus not understanding the limited scope of my statement.

If such DDOSes as you mention were common, such a scraping strategy would not have worked for the scraper at all. But no, they're rare edge cases, from a combination of shoddy scrapers and shoddy website implementations, including the lack of even basic throttling for expensive-to-serve resources.

The vast majority of websites handle AI traffic fine though, either because they don't have expensive to serve resources, or because they properly protect such resources from abuse.

If you're an edge case who is harmed by overly aggressive scrapers, take countermeasures. Everyone with that problem should, that's neither new nor controversial.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#490

Post by lxgr »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #84
whatisthiseven wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which VPNs are people using that actually care about the user's privacy? Most of them don't, sell their home IP to buyers, sell their DNS history to others, etc. Worse, some of them could require invasive MITM cert stuff most users will just click yes through. I have yet to see a use case for VPNs for the casual internet audience, and for a tech savvy user, their better off renting through some datacenter or somethin…

ProtonVPN with bitcoin which you get from a monero swap is a good idea for complete privacy if you want port forwarding. MullvadVPN is also another great one. I have heard some good things about AirVPN, but I can absolutely attest for mullvad and to a degree ProtonVPN (Just with Proton, depending upon your threat model, do make the necessary precautions like buying with monero for example) There are others, but mostl…

How do you square "complete privacy" with the fact that you're authenticating to these VPNs with a persistent username or other credential and are then sending traffic through them, both from an IP address that might identify you, and to services that you authenticate against?

Best case, the VPN learns your residential IP and the names of every HTTPS host you connect to (if not your entire DNS traffic as well); worst case, they collude with any of the services you use (or some ad tracker they embed) and persistently deanonymize your account.

VPNs are structurally not great for privacy.

Post reply on HN