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ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

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Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#391

Post by witx »

MyNameIsNickT wrote: post #49

Hey! I'm Nick, and I work on Integrity at OpenAI. These checks are part of how we protect our first-party products from abuse like bots, scraping, fraud, and other attempts to misuse the platform. A big reason we invest in this is because we want to keep free and logged-out access available for more users. My team’s goal is to help make sure the limited GPU resources are going to real users. We also keep a very close…

> These checks are part of how we protect our first-party products from abuse like bots, scraping,

Do you guys see the irony here?

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#392

Post by catoc »

lukan wrote: post #388
catoc wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s only bad if you’re a closed, for-profit entity

Was that sarcasm? Speaking of it, what parts of OpenAI are still open?

I know, always hard to tell on HN. Added the relevant declarative tag

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#393

Post by iberator »

solaire_oa wrote: post #282
gruez wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I assumed it wouldn’t work, but to my surprise with no account, no cookies of any kind it took my query and gave me an answer. They allowed anonymous requests for months now, maybe even a year.

Yeah, additionally gemini.google.com is also free unauthenticated, which I've been using for a very long time (a year?). Why this is being treated as news is confusing.

Microsoft and Gemini can be used without account. just works! (talking about web app)

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#394

Post by wolvoleo »

expedition32 wrote: post #385
wolvoleo wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more ironic because without all the scraping openai has done, there would have been no ChatGPT. Also, it's not just the cost of the bandwidth and processing. Information has value too. Otherwise they wouldn't bother scraping it in the first place. They compete directly with the websites featuring their training data and thus they are taking away value from them just as the bots do from ChatGPT. In fact the more…

This leads me to thinking: I ask chatGPT a question and they get the answer from gamefaqs. But what happens if gamefaqs disappears because of lack of traffic? Can LLM actually create or only regurgitate content.

It will remain in their scraped data so they can keep including it in their later training datasets if they wish. However it won't be able to do live internet searches anymore. And it will not generate new content of course. Especially not based on games released after the site codes down so it doesn't know. Though it could of course correlate data from other sources that talk about the game in question.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#395

Post by grishka »

nikitaga wrote: post #217
Imnimo wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to me that OpenAI considers scraping to be a form of abuse.

Scraping static content from a website at near-zero marginal cost to its server, vs scraping an expensive LLM service provided for free, are different things. The former relies on fairly controversial ideas about copyright and fair use to qualify as abuse, whereas the latter is direct financial damage – by your own direct competitors no less. It's fun to poke at a seeming hypocrisy of the big bad, but the similarity…

> Scraping static content from a website at near-zero marginal cost to its server

It's not possible to know in advance what is static and what is not. I have some rather stubborn bots make several requests per second to my server, completely ignoring robots.txt and rel="nofollow", using residential IPs and browser user-agents. It's just a mild annoyance for me, although I did try to block them, but I can imagine it might be a real problem for some people.

I'm not against my website getting scraped, I believe being able to do that is an important part what the web is, but please have some decency.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#396

Post by wolvoleo »

stefanka wrote: post #389
expedition32 wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This leads me to thinking: I ask chatGPT a question and they get the answer from gamefaqs. But what happens if gamefaqs disappears because of lack of traffic? Can LLM actually create or only regurgitate content.

They cannot create original content.

Well they can make some up, like hallucination. That's an additional problem: when the original site that provided the training data is gone: how can they use verify the AI output to make sure it's correct?

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#397

Post by lelanthran »

nikitaga wrote: post #217
Imnimo wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to me that OpenAI considers scraping to be a form of abuse.

Scraping static content from a website at near-zero marginal cost to its server, vs scraping an expensive LLM service provided for free, are different things. The former relies on fairly controversial ideas about copyright and fair use to qualify as abuse, whereas the latter is direct financial damage – by your own direct competitors no less. It's fun to poke at a seeming hypocrisy of the big bad, but the similarity…

I don't think a rule along the lines of "Doing $FOO to a corporate is forbidden, but doing $FOO to a charitable initiative is fine" is at all fair.

What "$FOO" actually is, is irrelevant. I'm curious how you would convince people that this sort of rule is fair.

The corp can always ban users who break ToS, after all. They don't need any help. The charitable initiative can't actually do that, can they?

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#399

Post by nicbou »

MyNameIsNickT wrote: post #49

Hey! I'm Nick, and I work on Integrity at OpenAI. These checks are part of how we protect our first-party products from abuse like bots, scraping, fraud, and other attempts to misuse the platform. A big reason we invest in this is because we want to keep free and logged-out access available for more users. My team’s goal is to help make sure the limited GPU resources are going to real users. We also keep a very close…

For what it's worth, I switched to Gemini because of the long ChatGPT load time. Gemini loads as fast as Google Search.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#400

Post by stefanka »

tomalbrc wrote: post #247
wilg wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

robots.txt bro https://developers.openai.com/api/docs/bots/

"bro": https://www.businessinsider.com/openai-anthropic-ai-ignore-r...

The article is from 2024. Is this still happening?
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