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My MacBook keyboard is broken and it's insanely expensive to fix

tobiasberg.net

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Re: My MacBook keyboard is broken and it's insanely expensive to fix

#181

Post by CharlieDigital »

MostlyStable wrote: post #42

>Here’s hoping governments regulate laptop manufacturers to actually make repairable machines in the future. No, this is a bad solution. If you want a repairable machine, buy one. They exist. Others have already mentioned Framework, but there are other options that aren't that far down the spectrum either. One of the things macbook users praise the most is "build quality", which often means the solidity of the device…

    > No, this is a bad solution.
This is a great solution. See: EU and normalization on USB-C for power delivery and wider market effect. Yes, market was heading in this direction, but EU legislation brought it over the line.

Re: My MacBook keyboard is broken and it's insanely expensive to fix

#183

Post by leptons »

nine_k wrote: post #100
vintagedave wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run into bugs every day. It wakes, and has a black screen not wallpaper. Change spaces and the focus is wrong for half a second. Login screen is a pain because it collapses all users together. Notifications don’t scroll if they stop scrolling when the cursor is over a gap between them. Something on the system constantly eats disk space, and I think it’s the system updates. If I dock two apps in one space, sometimes…

Unless these problems only started after an upgrade to Tahoe, I would strongly suspect defective hardware in your case.

Nothing mentioned in the previous comment is indicative of a hardware problem. If you think I'm wrong, please describe a plausible mechanism to cause any of the problems described above. They all are plausibly software bugs. I mean, Apple hardware is not really any better than any other piece of fallible hardware, and their OS has been a buggy mess since Apple DOS. Most pieces of software as large as an OS are buggy in many ways, and Apple has not been proven to be the exception.

Re: My MacBook keyboard is broken and it's insanely expensive to fix

#184

Post by commandersaki »

h4kunamata wrote: post #127

No symphaty!!! Apple has been doing this since forever and people keep buying its hardware. You cannot replace a screen even if you buy a genuine one because Apple locks hardware ID via firmware, so only they can replace that! Apple own customer is the reason why Apple does what it does best: You rent your hardware, you don't and never will own an Apple hardware!!

Things may change. Macbook Neo keyboard is straight-forward to replace.

Re: My MacBook keyboard is broken and it's insanely expensive to fix

#185

Post by aurareturn »

mattbillenstein wrote: post #9

Framework Laptop + some form of Linux - MacOS keeps getting worse and the hardware exceeding hard and expensive to repair.

FYI, for those who are consider Framework, you are usually getting a laptop that is 2x as expensive as a Macbook but slower, with a worse screen, far worse performance and battery life, and likely not as reliable as a Mac long term.

You can basically buy 2 Macbook Airs for the same price as Framework 13 and keep one in the draw if you are ever scared that one breaks. That's how bad of a deal Framework is or how much of a value Macbooks are.

Try configuring a Framework yourself and you'll quickly find that even the basic configuration goes over $1400. Any upgrade on the CPU and you're already at $1770.[0]

You can usually get an M4 Macbook Air 16GB for $750 - $800 on sale. So you can get 2 of them for the same price as one Framework 13 and still significantly outperform it.

Framework is an idealogical buy. It just isn't worth it otherwise.

[0]https://frame.work/products/laptop13-diy-amd-ai300/configura...

Re: My MacBook keyboard is broken and it's insanely expensive to fix

#186

Post by nottorp »

radley wrote: post #145
ThePowerOfFuet wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

macOS has slid a long way down the quality ladder over the past ten years.

Oh, I completely agree. But they can get away with it because we depend on the platform more than the individual apps. And yes, Tahoe is shiny hot garbage piled on top of so much broken software, just to push an effect trick. I'm not sure how I feel developing with SwiftUI when Apple clearly can't make it work for their own apps.

> we depend on the platform more than the individual apps

The only way you actually depend on the platform is if you do Mac OS / iOS development.

However, I happen to work on a project that requires both Windows and Linux, so I get reminders every day of why I should stay on Mac OS as desktop.

Caveat 1: no, I'm not upgrading to Tahoe or iOS 26.

Caveat 2: I wouldn't dream of running a server on anything but Linux. Desktops with a GUI though...

The problem that fucks us over is that Mac OS only has to be better than the competition.

Re: My MacBook keyboard is broken and it's insanely expensive to fix

#187

Post by lelanthran »

bloppe wrote: post #57
wvenable wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, this is a bad solution. You didn't say why this is a bad solution. The government mandates that cars get safer every year and fatalities are down 78% from the 1960s. Whenever government regulates things to benefit people, people tend to benefit. > One of the things macbook users praise the most is "build quality", which often means the solidity of the device, lack of flex, etc. It seems like the Macbook Neo has…

Car safety is a bad counterexample because the risk is otherwise often externalized i.e. your car can easily hurt a total stranger whereas the consequences of your choice in laptop are strictly personal. And as GP stated, regulating this sort of thing would definitely force a particular trade-off on everyone. A lot of people would be pissed to have MacBooks with worse "build quality" even if they were more reparable.…

> A lot of people would be pissed to have MacBooks with worse "build quality" even if they were more reparable.

It is not a given that being repairable results in worse build quality.

Re: My MacBook keyboard is broken and it's insanely expensive to fix

#188

Post by bengale »

> I’ll remember this experience and choose to buy a more repairable laptop like a ThinkPad or a Framework laptop.

> Here’s hoping governments regulate laptop manufacturers to actually make repairable machines in the future.

So there is already a solution on the market but for some reason the immediate desire is for the government to get involved and start regulating laptop keyboards?

Re: My MacBook keyboard is broken and it's insanely expensive to fix

#189

Post by lelanthran »

VogonPoetry wrote: post #91
wvenable wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. The lack of repairability has external costs not born by the purchaser or the manufacturer -- more toxic trash unnecessarily added to the environment. Forcing a particular trade-off on everyone is entirely the point. It's the point of car safety, it's also the point of minimum warranties, electrical emission regulations, safety standards, etc.

Does this also mean only using "standard" parts? Or does the manufacturer have to over-produce the parts for, lets say 7 years, and then warehouse and ship those parts, probably multiple times. Or keep a low rate production line running for 7 years? What happens to the parts that don't get used? Are they scrapped? That "what if" cost is going to be built into the cost of the laptop. Repairability doesn't always keep…

> Does this also mean only using "standard" parts? Or does the manufacturer have to over-produce the parts for, lets say 7 years, and then warehouse and ship those parts, probably multiple times. Or keep a low rate production line running for 7 years? What happens to the parts that don't get used? Are they scrapped?

None of that is relevant in this context: The parts are available, but the laptop is designed and built such that the alone keyboard cannot be replaced.[1]

[1] Not sure if this is possible on that specific laptop, but with a steady hand, a tiny drill, maybe a magnifiying glass too, you can maybe drill out the rivets, then replace the keyboard, then either re-rivet it back again or tap very tiny thread into the laptop and use screws.

Re: My MacBook keyboard is broken and it's insanely expensive to fix

#190

Post by ahf8Aithaex7Nai »

piekvorst wrote: post #162
Gigachad wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decades of HN users finger wagging and suggesting FOSS hardware has progressed society nowhere. 12 months from EU mandatory replaceable batteries and products across the industry are being redesigned with repairability, usb-c, and user friendly designs. It’s time to accept regulation actually does work when you have a competent government.

Having the government regulate the free market is an issue of physical force and should always be discussed as such. Are you willing to deal with men by force beyond retaliation? This issue is moral, not practical. Besides, it’s easy to sell one’s freedom to a competent government, but it’s insanely hard to get it back when it rots. This has been the case of many welfare states. “Let’s force them to do the damn thing…

The perfect example of cognitive dissonance! The government, which mandates that the can of tomato soup I buy must not contain any glass shards, is immediately equated with physical violence. Although the shopkeeper who requires me to pay for the can before I take it out of the store is far more likely to get in my face if I don’t follow their rules. I don’t understand this worldview. You’re selling your freedom to big corporations. Your life expectancy is declining. Your food is of poor quality. Your cities are full of homeless people. But then again, I am an unfree European blinded by communism.
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