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ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

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Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#241

Post by TeMPOraL »

bloomca wrote: post #233
groundzeros2015 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how every scrolling list has been implemented since the 80s. We actually lost knowledge about how to build UI in the move to web

The biggest issue is that there is no native component support for that. So everyone implements their own and it is both brittle and introduces some issues like: - "ctrl + f" search stops working as expected - the scrollbar has wrong dimensions - sometimes the content might jump (common web issue overall) The reason why we lost it is because web supports wildly different types of layouts, so it is really hard to opti…

Right. This is one of my favorite examples of how badly bloated the web is, and how full of stupid decisions. Virtual scrolling means you're maintaining a window into content, not actually showing full content. Web browsers are perfectly fine showing tens of thousands of lines of text, or rows in a table, so if you need virtual scrolling for less, something already went badly wrong, and the product is likely to be a toy, not a tool (working definition: can it handle realistic amount of data people would use for productive work - i.e. 10k rows, not 10 rows).

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#242

Post by zar1048576 »

jagged-chisel wrote: post #88
0x3f wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meet me in a cafe and I will sign a JWT saying you're not a bot. You can submit this to whoever will accept it.

Sounds like we’re bringing back the PGP key signing parties

Definitely miss those!

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#243

Post by karlshea »

nikitaga wrote: post #217
Imnimo wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to me that OpenAI considers scraping to be a form of abuse.

Scraping static content from a website at near-zero marginal cost to its server, vs scraping an expensive LLM service provided for free, are different things. The former relies on fairly controversial ideas about copyright and fair use to qualify as abuse, whereas the latter is direct financial damage – by your own direct competitors no less. It's fun to poke at a seeming hypocrisy of the big bad, but the similarity…

I don’t know what world you live in but it’s not this one.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#244

Post by AtlasBarfed »

nikitaga wrote: post #217
Imnimo wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to me that OpenAI considers scraping to be a form of abuse.

Scraping static content from a website at near-zero marginal cost to its server, vs scraping an expensive LLM service provided for free, are different things. The former relies on fairly controversial ideas about copyright and fair use to qualify as abuse, whereas the latter is direct financial damage – by your own direct competitors no less. It's fun to poke at a seeming hypocrisy of the big bad, but the similarity…

Because you say it is?

I obviously disagree. I mean, on top of this we are talking about not-open OpenAI.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#245

Post by josefx »

monocularvision wrote: post #239
toss1 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh Gawd, not this idea again! This idea of capturing the timing of people's keystrokes to identify them, ensure it is them typing their passwords, or even using the timing itself as a password has been recurring every few years for at least three decades. It is always just as bad. Because there are so many cases where it completely fails. The first case is a minor injury to either hand — just put a fat bandage on one…

You might want to check out “How it Works” on the site as none of what you said applies: https://typed.by/how

Then why does your link claim the following?

> While you type, the keyboard quietly records how you type — the rhythm, the pauses between keys, where your finger lands, how hard you press.

> Nobody types the same way. Your pattern is as unique as your handwriting. That's the signal.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#246

Post by tomalbrc »

MyNameIsNickT wrote: post #49

Hey! I'm Nick, and I work on Integrity at OpenAI. These checks are part of how we protect our first-party products from abuse like bots, scraping, fraud, and other attempts to misuse the platform. A big reason we invest in this is because we want to keep free and logged-out access available for more users. My team’s goal is to help make sure the limited GPU resources are going to real users. We also keep a very close…

Fake Account

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#247

Post by tomalbrc »

wilg wrote: post #213
mystraline wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a completely in-scope question. How do we defend against your scraping, OpenAI? I dont want any of my content scraped or seen by you all. Frankly, fuck you all for thinking my content is owned by you.

robots.txt bro https://developers.openai.com/api/docs/bots/

"bro": https://www.businessinsider.com/openai-anthropic-ai-ignore-r...

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#248

Post by not2b »

nikitaga wrote: post #217
Imnimo wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to me that OpenAI considers scraping to be a form of abuse.

Scraping static content from a website at near-zero marginal cost to its server, vs scraping an expensive LLM service provided for free, are different things. The former relies on fairly controversial ideas about copyright and fair use to qualify as abuse, whereas the latter is direct financial damage – by your own direct competitors no less. It's fun to poke at a seeming hypocrisy of the big bad, but the similarity…

I understand why OpenAI is trying to reduce its costs, but it simply isn't true that AI crawlers aren't creating very significant load, especially those crawlers that ignore robots.txt and hide their identities. This is direct financial damage and it's particularly hard on nonprofit sites that have been around a long time.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#249

Post by bschwindHN »

halflife wrote: post #70
MyNameIsNickT wrote: post #49

Hey! I'm Nick, and I work on Integrity at OpenAI. These checks are part of how we protect our first-party products from abuse like bots, scraping, fraud, and other attempts to misuse the platform. A big reason we invest in this is because we want to keep free and logged-out access available for more users. My team’s goal is to help make sure the limited GPU resources are going to real users. We also keep a very close…

Don’t know if it’s related to the article, but the chats ui performance becomes absolutely horrendous in long chats. Typing the chat box is slow, rendering lags and sometimes gets stuck altogether. I have a research chat that I have to think twice before messaging because the performance is so bad. Running on iPhone 16 safari, and MacBook Pro m3 chrome.

Almost certainly running some sort of O(n^2) algorithm on the chat text every key press. Or maybe just insane hierarchies of HTML.

Either way, pretty wild that you can have billions of dollars at your disposal, your interface is almost purely text, and still manage to be a fuckup at displaying it without performance problems.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#250

Post by maxwellg »

jaccola wrote: post #129
CorneredCoroner wrote: post #96

> A headless browser that loads the HTML but doesn't execute the JavaScript bundle won't have them. this is meaningless btw. A browser headless or not does execute javascript.

I disagree, a browser can have javascript execution disabled (and this is somewhat common in scraping to save time/resources). I read it to mean: "A browser that doesn't execute the JavaScript bundle won't have [the rendered React elements]." Which is true.

Wouldn't a browser that doesn't execute JS also not execute the browser fingerprinting code in the first place?
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