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Coding agents could make free software matter again

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Re: Coding agents could make free software matter again

#41

Post by faksr »

jonahss wrote: post #37
apatheticonion wrote: post #21

Having over a decade of open source software I've written freely available online, I actually really appreciate the value that AI && LLMs have provided me. The thing that leaves a bad taste in my mouth is the fact that my works were likely included in the training data and, if it doesn't violate my licenses (GNU 2/3), it certainly feels against the spirit of what I intended when distributing my works. I was made redu…

I feel kind of good knowing that my code, design decisions, styles, are now part of the data shaping all software now.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. The cannibalistic $trillion companies profit from it all and no one opted in.

There are also people who want to be eaten by a literal cannibal. I say, no thanks.

Re: Coding agents could make free software matter again

#42

Post by apatheticonion »

jonahss wrote: post #37
apatheticonion wrote: post #21

Having over a decade of open source software I've written freely available online, I actually really appreciate the value that AI && LLMs have provided me. The thing that leaves a bad taste in my mouth is the fact that my works were likely included in the training data and, if it doesn't violate my licenses (GNU 2/3), it certainly feels against the spirit of what I intended when distributing my works. I was made redu…

I feel kind of good knowing that my code, design decisions, styles, are now part of the data shaping all software now.

Me too, and I use LLMs often for personal and professional work. Knowing that colleagues are burning through $700/day worth of tokens, and a small fraction of those tokens were likely derived from my work while I get made redundant is a bit shite.

Re: Coding agents could make free software matter again

#43

Post by andoando »

floathub wrote: post #3

Free software has never mattered more. All the infrastructure that runs the whole AI-over-the-internet juggernaut is essentially all open source. Heck, even Claude Code would be far less useful without grep, diff, git, head, etc., etc., etc. And one can easily see a day where something like a local sort Claude Code talking to Open Weight and Open Source models is the core dev tool.

Why isnt LLM training itself open sourced? With all the compute in the world, something like Folding@home here would be killer

Re: Coding agents could make free software matter again

#44

Post by manwe150 »

apatheticonion wrote: post #42
jonahss wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel kind of good knowing that my code, design decisions, styles, are now part of the data shaping all software now.

Me too, and I use LLMs often for personal and professional work. Knowing that colleagues are burning through $700/day worth of tokens, and a small fraction of those tokens were likely derived from my work while I get made redundant is a bit shite.

I’d been hoping to finally train a replacement and code myself out of a job for years. I just didn’t know I was the replacement too, working with AI.

Re: Coding agents could make free software matter again

#45

Post by Joel_Mckay »

threethirtytwo wrote: post #4

I think the opposite. It will make all software matter less. If trendlines continue... It will be faster for AI to vibe code said software to your customized specifications than to sign up for a SaaS and learn it. "Claude, create a project management tool that simplifies jira, customize it to my workflow." So a lot of apps will actually become closed source personalized builds.

Due to copyright laws and piracy bleed-through, one can't safely license "AI" output under some other use-case without the risk of getting sued or DMCA strikes. You can't make it GPL, or closed source... because it is not legally yours even if you paid someone for tokens.

Like all code-generators that came before, the current LLM will end up a niche product after the hype-cycle ends. "AI" only works if the models are fed other peoples real works, and the web is already >52% nonsense now. They add the Claude-contributor/flag to Git projects, so the scrapers don't consume as much of its own slop. ymmv =3

Re: Coding agents could make free software matter again

#46

Post by advael »

apatheticonion wrote: post #40
advael wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's no meaningful case by the letter of the law that use of training data that include GPL-licensed software in models that comprise the core component of modern LLMs doesn't obligate every producer of such models to make both the models and the software stack supporting them available under the same terms. Of course, it also seems clear in the present landscape that the law often depends more on the conv…

I'm struggling to parse the double negative in that statement, haha. Are you saying that you believe that untested but technically; models trained on GPL sources need to distribute the resulting LLMs under GPL?

Yes. Double negative intended for emphasis here, but apologies if it's confusing

Re: Coding agents could make free software matter again

#47

Post by agentultra »

I think it will wall people off from software.

I don’t know what SaaS has to do with FOSS. The point of FOSS was to allow me to modify the software I run on my system. If the device drivers for some hardware I depend on are no longer supported by the company I bought it from, if it’s open source, I can modify and extend the software myself.

The Copy Left licenses ensure that I share my modifications back if I distribute them. It’s a thing for the public good.

Agent-based software development walls people off from that. Mostly by ensuring that the provenance of the code it generates is not known and by deskilling people so that they don’t know what to prompt or how to fix their code.

Re: Coding agents could make free software matter again

#49

Post by coffeefirst »

threethirtytwo wrote: post #4

I think the opposite. It will make all software matter less. If trendlines continue... It will be faster for AI to vibe code said software to your customized specifications than to sign up for a SaaS and learn it. "Claude, create a project management tool that simplifies jira, customize it to my workflow." So a lot of apps will actually become closed source personalized builds.

This isn’t going to happen.

I can already build a ticket tracker in a weekend. I’ve been on many teams that used Jira, nobody loves Jira, none of us ever bothered to DIY something good enough.

Why?

Because it’s a massive distraction. It’s really fun to build all these side apps, but then you have to maintain them.

I’m guessing a lot of vibeware will be abandoned rather than maintained.

Re: Coding agents could make free software matter again

#50

Post by advael »

BobbyJo wrote: post #35
advael wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's no meaningful case by the letter of the law that use of training data that include GPL-licensed software in models that comprise the core component of modern LLMs doesn't obligate every producer of such models to make both the models and the software stack supporting them available under the same terms. Of course, it also seems clear in the present landscape that the law often depends more on the conv…

If the rise of Draft Kings and Polymarket/Kalshi have taught me anything, it's that the law becomes meaningless at scale. Sad.

Sure, but that's more a result of policy decisions than an inevitable result of some natural law. Corporate lawlessness has been reined in before and it can be again
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