Live data from Hacker News

Police used AI facial recognition to wrongly arrest TN woman for crimes in ND

cnn.com

111–120 of 221 posts

Re: Police used AI facial recognition to wrongly arrest TN woman for crimes in ND

#111
post #84

Without even looking at the AI part, I have a single question: Did anybody investigate? That's it. Whether it's AI that flagged her, or a witness who saw her, or her IP address appeared on the logs. Did anybody bothered to ask her "where were you the morning of july 10th between 3 and 4pm. But that's not what happened, they saw the data and said "we got her". But this is the worst part of the story: > And after her o…

Yes, of course someone should have investigated, but the larger point here is that people don’t because they are being sold a false narrative that AI is infallible and can do anything. We could sit here all day arguing “you should always validate the results”, but even on HN there are people loudly advocating that you don’t need to.

Where are you seeing people being told that AI is infallible? AI is being hyped to the moon, but "infallible" is not one of the claims.

To the extent people trust AI to be infallible, it's just laziness and rapport (AI is rarely if ever rude without prompting, nor does it criticize extensive question-asking as many humans would, it's the quintessential enabler[1]) that causes people to assume that because it's useful and helpful for so many things, it'll be right about everything.

The models all have disclaimers that state the inverse. People just gradually lose sight of that.

[1] This might be the nature of LLMs, or it might be by design, similar to social media slop driving engagement. It's in AI companies' interest to have people buying subscriptions to talk with AIs more. If AI goes meta and critiques the user (except in more serious cases like harm to self or others, or specific kinds of cultural wrongthink), that's bad for business.

Re: Police used AI facial recognition to wrongly arrest TN woman for crimes in ND

#112
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, of course someone should have investigated, but the larger point here is that people don’t because they are being sold a false narrative that AI is infallible and can do anything. We could sit here all day arguing “you should always validate the results”, but even on HN there are people loudly advocating that you don’t need to.

Where are you seeing people being told that AI is infallible? AI is being hyped to the moon, but "infallible" is not one of the claims. To the extent people trust AI to be infallible, it's just laziness and rapport (AI is rarely if ever rude without prompting, nor does it criticize extensive question-asking as many humans would, it's the quintessential enabler [1]) that causes people to assume that because it's usefu…

> Where are you seeing people being told that AI is infallible? AI is being hyped to the moon, but "infallible" is not one of the claims.

I see all kinds of people being told that AI-based AI detection software used for detecting AI in writing is infallible!

You want to make sure people aren't using fallible AI? Use our AI to detect AI? What could possibly go wrong.

Re: Police used AI facial recognition to wrongly arrest TN woman for crimes in ND

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but a judge issued the warrant in the first place. Cops did not do a proper investigation and the judge green-lighted it. It is all on the JUDGE or possibly a magistrate who approved a faulty warrant. The judge failed the poor woman. FIRE him. Then sue Clearview for big bucks.

what's with the weird obsession all over the thread that it is the JUDGE who is the only person at fault here?

Especially considering the judge is the only person involved in this who is completely immune from being sued.

Re: Police used AI facial recognition to wrongly arrest TN woman for crimes in ND

#114

Without even looking at the AI part, I have a single question: Did anybody investigate? That's it. Whether it's AI that flagged her, or a witness who saw her, or her IP address appeared on the logs. Did anybody bothered to ask her "where were you the morning of july 10th between 3 and 4pm. But that's not what happened, they saw the data and said "we got her". But this is the worst part of the story: > And after her o…

> Whether it's AI that flagged her It absolutely was. There's no question of this. Now we need to ask how was the system marketed, what did the police pay for it, how were they trained to use it? > anybody bothered to ask her "where were you the morning of july 10th between 3 and 4pm. Legally that amounts "hearsay" and cannot have any value. Those statements probably won't even be admissible in court without other su…

>Legally that amounts "hearsay" and cannot have any value.

How is that hearsay if she's directly testifying to her own whereabouts?

Hearsay would be if someone else was testifying "she was in X location on july 10th between 3 and 4pm", without the accused being available for cross

Re: Police used AI facial recognition to wrongly arrest TN woman for crimes in ND

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but a judge issued the warrant in the first place. Cops did not do a proper investigation and the judge green-lighted it. It is all on the JUDGE or possibly a magistrate who approved a faulty warrant. The judge failed the poor woman. FIRE him. Then sue Clearview for big bucks.

what's with the weird obsession all over the thread that it is the JUDGE who is the only person at fault here?

Because the police or the prosecutor or whatever can ask for whatever they want, but it's up to the judge to refuse their stupid claims. Though the others should get some blame too.

Re: Police used AI facial recognition to wrongly arrest TN woman for crimes in ND

#116
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whether it's AI that flagged her It absolutely was. There's no question of this. Now we need to ask how was the system marketed, what did the police pay for it, how were they trained to use it? > anybody bothered to ask her "where were you the morning of july 10th between 3 and 4pm. Legally that amounts "hearsay" and cannot have any value. Those statements probably won't even be admissible in court without other su…

>Legally that amounts "hearsay" and cannot have any value. How is that hearsay if she's directly testifying to her own whereabouts? Hearsay would be if someone else was testifying "she was in X location on july 10th between 3 and 4pm", without the accused being available for cross

No!

"I was at the library" is firsthand testimony.

"I saw her at the library" is firsthand testimony.

"I saw her library card in her pocket" is firsthand testimony.

"She was at the library - Bob told me so" is hearsay. Just look at the word - "hear say". Hearsay is testifying about events where your knowledge does not come from your own firsthand observations of the event itself.

Re: Police used AI facial recognition to wrongly arrest TN woman for crimes in ND

#117

Without even looking at the AI part, I have a single question: Did anybody investigate? That's it. Whether it's AI that flagged her, or a witness who saw her, or her IP address appeared on the logs. Did anybody bothered to ask her "where were you the morning of july 10th between 3 and 4pm. But that's not what happened, they saw the data and said "we got her". But this is the worst part of the story: > And after her o…

The thing about the legal system is there's no incentive to investigate to find the truth. The incentive is to prosecte and prove the charges. Speaking from the experience of being falsely accused after calling 911 to stop a drunk woman from driving. The narrative they "investigated" was so obviously false, bodycam evidence directly contradicted multiple key facts. Officials are interested only seeking to prove the c…

> The thing about the legal system is there's no incentive to investigate to find the truth.

The truth is much more complicated and involves politics. For example Seattle (and possibly other cities?) enacted a law that involves paying damages for being wrong in the event of bringing certain types of charges. But that has resulted in some widely publicized examples where the prosecutor erred by being overly cautious.

Re: Police used AI facial recognition to wrongly arrest TN woman for crimes in ND

#119
The actual scariest part isn't that the AI got it wrong... it's that nobody felt the need to verify the AI. A tip from an anonymous caller can get investigated and found out if its true or not, and a match from a facial recognition system apparently does not. People haven't built better investigative tools they've just built better ways to skip around the investigation.

Re: Police used AI facial recognition to wrongly arrest TN woman for crimes in ND

#120

The actual scariest part isn't that the AI got it wrong... it's that nobody felt the need to verify the AI. A tip from an anonymous caller can get investigated and found out if its true or not, and a match from a facial recognition system apparently does not. People haven't built better investigative tools they've just built better ways to skip around the investigation.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN