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1929: Inside the Greatest Crash in Wall Street History

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Re: 1929: Inside the Greatest Crash in Wall Street History

#71
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people who have significant savings in the stock market don't have the lifespan to ride out a 25 year recovery cycle. And those young enough to have the time usually don't have much in savings yet.

I guess it depends what you call "significant". I am 40 and have over 200k in my 401k, which I think is significant. And I could most likely expect to live 25 more years. If there's a crash tomorrow, my money wouldn't grow the way I am hoping it will over that time, but I should come out ok considering that I will be getting discount stocks while the market recovers.

If you're only expecting to live to 65, you would be trying to time your 401k into a roughly 5 year window (assuming you wait until 59 1/2 to begin withdrawl).

Re: 1929: Inside the Greatest Crash in Wall Street History

#72

“The Great Depression: A Diary” is a great day by day first person account of someone living through the depression. It’s a great reminder how we don’t have a monopoly on insane politics https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6601224-the-great-depres...

I read this more than 10 years ago, so I don't remember a lot, but I do appreciate it for being the only account of the crash that doesn't have historical hindsight. It was interesting to hear someone trying to make sense of things on a near daily basis during the fog of uncertainty. It makes me want to find other such accounts of historical events without the inevitable-seeming cause and effect sequence of events yo…

Good recommendations here, thanks. I was aware of Orwell's account of the Spanish civil war, so maybe I'll start there.

Re: 1929: Inside the Greatest Crash in Wall Street History

#73
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope not, my parents were teenagers at the time, my fathers life was terrible back then, he had to join the CCC to survive and to help out his family. He had told me working with the CCC was not a bed of roses and he saw many terrible accidents to some of the workers. But he was glad it existed. Also, back then, I believe people were on average stronger and more resilient people alive today. Having such a crash wil…

“ I believe people were on average stronger and more resilient people alive today” People step up very quickly once they have to face a difficult situation. A while ago I talked to Ukrainian about their war. He said some years ago he couldn’t have imagined living in a war zone but once it gets started you get used very quickly to drones flying over you, buildings in your town bring blown up, losing power for days, hi…

People do adapt, at least the Ukrainians are tough people, their lives have never been as comfortable as westerners.

Re: 1929: Inside the Greatest Crash in Wall Street History

#74
I read 1929 and my main takeaway was how unlikely it is for us to have a crash of that magnitude again. The differences between then and now are stark.

First, everybody was buying shares on margin. Everybody. Random lower class households were buyings shares on 10:1 margin. They had door-to-door salesmen pushing shares on uneducated households.

Second, nobody was talking about market cap. The whole world revolved around the share prices but nobody seemed to talk about what a company was worth.

Third, there was no SEC. There were no reporting requirements, no quarterly earnings calls. No rules of any kind.

Fourth, knowing prices was very hard. The current price of a stock was shown on physical signs that had to be updated and during heavy trading they were often many hours behind. Absolutely nobody knew what the price of various stocks was during the heat of the moment.

Fifth, the US economy is much more diversified than it was. Back in 1929 it was basically oil, rail, and banks. RCA was the Nvidia of its day.

We're in the middle of a correction now due to Iran, but I don't see a 1929-style crash happening.

Re: 1929: Inside the Greatest Crash in Wall Street History

#75
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people who have significant savings in the stock market don't have the lifespan to ride out a 25 year recovery cycle. And those young enough to have the time usually don't have much in savings yet.

I guess it depends what you call "significant". I am 40 and have over 200k in my 401k, which I think is significant. And I could most likely expect to live 25 more years. If there's a crash tomorrow, my money wouldn't grow the way I am hoping it will over that time, but I should come out ok considering that I will be getting discount stocks while the market recovers.

You are probably in the top 25%, depending on where in your 40s you are. Median is about 162k for Americans in their 40s.

Re: 1929: Inside the Greatest Crash in Wall Street History

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

right. And because we know of the crashes of 2022, 2008, 2001, etc. the market is showing a lot more resiliency. Which is good, but it will take longer to have a correction. Which may be bad by itself.

Stabilizing from those crashes were all about the injecting liquidity and faith and credit in the US Treasury. Hoover didn’t handle the events subsequent to 1929 well, but more out of ignorance than malice. In 2026, the POTUS, his family and friends are looting the treasury with brazen acts of fraud. The government is buying losing futures contracts to manipulate oil and other markets, and “mysterious people” are buy…

> In 2026, the POTUS, his family and friends are looting the treasury with brazen acts of fraud.

Proof?

Re: 1929: Inside the Greatest Crash in Wall Street History

#77
People often mix up the 1929 crash with the great depression. Those things are related but not strongly so. A stock market crash does not lead to a major recession or depression.

The initial crash was worse in 1987 then in 1929. But in late 80s there was no recession.

So crashes are bad for people who have invested but it looks much more like a bubble in hindsight because of how it turned out. Lots of good companies were also destroyed in Great Depressions, companies, including banks that were mostly sound.

People always focus in the initial crash rather then the actual causes for long run recession. Those are related to monetary and fiscal policy more then anything else.

In the case of the 20s there were a number of very famous economists in the 20s who had warned that structural deflation was happening and that companies need to work together to combat the problem. And this is exactly why this crash turned into such a long term disaster.

So the real worry is not AI bubble but the response to any crash.

Re: 1929: Inside the Greatest Crash in Wall Street History

#78

> Beyond the intrinsic difficulty of revivifying the top-hatted dead, Sorkin’s rendition is limited by his desire to frame 1929 as a story about people. His focus on individuals comes at the expense of analysis—particularly of the deeper economic forces that made the crash likely, if not inevitable. Sorkin is more interested in how the crisis felt than why it happened. He has little to say about why the government fa…

Older Keynesian ideas had largely faded from practical central banking, while New Keynesian economics never fully translated into a robust operating framework for crisis conditions. In principle, central banks mostly had the models needed to understand what was happening. What they lacked was an operational framework that could respond properly once their normal interest-rate machinery stopped working.

Operationally, central banking had become heavily built around interest rates. In New Keynesian terms, policy works by setting the nominal interest rate relative to the estimated real or natural rate, thereby pushing policy in an inflationary or deflationary direction. But that only works if your estimate of the real rate is roughly correct. In a crisis, when the natural rate is collapsing and financial conditions are tightening rapidly, that framework can become dangerously misleading.

The backward-looking element matters here. In 2008, the Fed put too much weight on lagging inflation indicators, core inflation, and commodity-driven inflation fears when thinking about forward policy. Because of those inflation concerns, it did not cut rates between April 2008 and October 2008, even though the real economy and forward-looking indicators were already signaling serious trouble. Economists like Svensson had already argued for relying more on forecasts and expected inflation rather than backward-looking indicators. Bear Stearns had already happened in March. Yet even around the Lehman collapse, Fed discussion still reflected concern that inflation had been too high and that cutting too aggressively could damage credibility.

So the actual stance of policy was much too tight, and it became tighter in real terms as the economy deteriorated. As expected inflation and nominal spending weakened, a given nominal policy rate translated into a more contractionary real policy stance. That process was self-reinforcing: tight money weakened the economy, the weakening economy worsened expectations, and worsening expectations made the effective stance tighter still.

By late 2008 the Fed had moved close to zero and was beginning to think more seriously about quantitative easing, but it was still not comfortable treating aggressive QE as the main policy instrument. That is where I am very critical of Bernanke. Rather than using monetary policy as aggressively as necessary, he increasingly talked about the limits of monetary policy and the need for fiscal policy to take over. I think that was a major failure of central-bank responsibility. Allowing inflation to turn negative in 2009 while unemployment exploded was not acceptable.

The NGDP numbers make the failure especially obvious. In 2007, NGDP growth was around 5 percent. In 2008 it slowed to around 2 percent, already showing that policy had become too tight. Then in 2009 it fell to roughly negative 2 percent, which is disastrous. Once nominal spending collapses like that, you are no longer dealing only with a housing or banking crisis. You are creating a general recession that hits large parts of the economy that had little direct exposure to housing or finance. That is why technology firms and other businesses far outside housing were also hit so hard: NGDP had fallen massively below trend.

So for me this is fundamentally a case of operational failure. During the Great Moderation, the Fed had become used to relying on gradual, interest-rate-based responses to incoming data. That framework broke down when conditions changed rapidly. Instead of immediately shifting to aggressive balance-sheet expansion and expectation management, the Fed placed too much responsibility on fiscal policy. At that point, older Keynesian themes — the paradox of thrift, the idea that monetary policy becomes ineffective at the zero lower bound, and the need for government demand support — reentered the conversation.

By mid-2008, the Fed should have been much closer to zero and preparing an aggressive, open-ended QE-style program aimed at restoring normal inflation and nominal spending in 2009. A much faster and more aggressive monetary response would likely have reduced the need for large fiscal stimulus and limited the scale of financial rescues. Had they acted that way, this episode might be remembered primarily as the housing and banking crisis, rather than as the Great Recession.

QE1 was enough to stop the collapse from getting even worse, and QE2 and QE3 helped make the United States one of the better post-crisis performers. Even so, the response was still not aggressive enough, especially in 2009. The euro area did much worse and is still paying for it.

What the Fed did not do, even though some monetary economists had argued for it before 2008, was level targeting. The idea is simple: if you fall short of your inflation or nominal-income target for one or two years, you should then aim to return to the pre-crisis trend path rather than simply grow forward from a permanently lower base. That did not happen. Before the crisis, the U.S. had relatively stable NGDP growth of around 5 percent, roughly consistent with 2 to 3 percent real growth plus inflation. Then NGDP fell below trend in 2008 and 2009, and later returned to roughly 4 to 5 percent growth, helped by QE. But ideally, in 2010 and 2011, policy should have aimed for temporarily faster NGDP growth — something like 8 percent — in order to close at least part of the gap back to the old trend.

> he says the Fed may have suffered less from lack of leadership than from the lack of an adequate intellectual framework for understanding what was happening

“It wasn’t leadership, it was the intellectual framework” is a very convenient story for the man who was leading the institution. The basic logic of crisis stabilization — stop nominal collapse, stop deflation, ease aggressively, and use the balance sheet if rates are not enough — was not some unknown mystery in 2008. The failure was operational and intellectual inertia at the top, which is still a leadership failure.

One could argue that we shouldn't have a system where there are a small group of people in control like this, it should be a more automated or at least self correcting system, but train has left the station long ago.

Re: 1929: Inside the Greatest Crash in Wall Street History

#79
post #58
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is significant if you remain healthy and employed with income. But it is basically nothing if you get laid off at age 56, and you can't find another job due to age discrimination, your COBRA runs out after 18 months, but you are not 65 years old yet for Medicare . Obamacare may be completely neutered by then, so private health insurance may cost $30k/year for a 57 year-old. You still have a mortgage, you can't aff…

In this scenario I would take that 200k (or whatever there would be), and move to some low COL country.

You’re assuming that the US dollar retains a decent value and that foreign countries will put up with you for your wealth.

Re: 1929: Inside the Greatest Crash in Wall Street History

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stabilizing from those crashes were all about the injecting liquidity and faith and credit in the US Treasury. Hoover didn’t handle the events subsequent to 1929 well, but more out of ignorance than malice. In 2026, the POTUS, his family and friends are looting the treasury with brazen acts of fraud. The government is buying losing futures contracts to manipulate oil and other markets, and “mysterious people” are buy…

> In 2026, the POTUS, his family and friends are looting the treasury with brazen acts of fraud. Proof?

Someone is making a fortune, and thus someone is losing a fortune.

https://fortune.com/2026/03/24/paul-krugman-treason-oil-futu...

And those people are linked to the US President.

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