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Miasma: A tool to trap AI web scrapers in an endless poison pit

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171–180 of 276 posts

Re: Miasma: A tool to trap AI web scrapers in an endless poison pit

#171

Way back in the day I had a software product, with a basic system to prevent unauthorised sharing, since there was a small charge for it. Every time I released an update, and new crack would appear. For the next six months I worked on improving the anti-copying code until I stumbled across an article by a coder in the same boat as me. He realised he was now playing a game with some other coders where he make the copy…

So many problems could be solved by letting go.

Unfortunately social media and snowballing copyright maximalism has inflated egos to the point where more and more people think they need to control everything.

Re: Miasma: A tool to trap AI web scrapers in an endless poison pit

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I dunno... it feels like the same approach as those people who tell you gleeful stories of how they kept a phone spammer on a call for 45 minutes: "That'll teach 'em, ha ha!" Do these types of techniques really work? I’m not convinced If you are automating it, I don't see why not. Kitboga, a you-tuber kept scam callers in AI call-center loops tying up there resources so they cant use them on unsuspecting victims.[0]…

Pretty easy. Get a paid number and have the phone scammers / marketers call that. I know a guy who made a decent side huzzle from this. They marketers slowly blocked his number tho, not sure if he still has this thing going on, as it was more a experiment.

Was he picking up the phone and telling them to call him back on the other number?

Re: Miasma: A tool to trap AI web scrapers in an endless poison pit

#173
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>maybe it was an analogy? In that case it's a terrible analogy because if you can't get people to agree on the cookies case, what hope do you have to extend it to the case you're trying to apply the analogy to? It's like saying "You wouldn't pirate a movie, why would you pirate a blog post", because most people would pirate movies.

oh man. my comment was about the very human need to be recognized for something created, made, or thought by a person. People are ok with writing blog posts, they're ok with writing software, and they're ok with give it all for free, but they want their name attached and their contribution recognized.

>my comment was about the very human need to be recognized for something created, made, or thought by a person.

And I specifically addressed that aspect:

>The moral question is more ambiguous, but it's still pretty weak. Most recipes are uncredited, and it's unclear why someone can force everyone to attribute the recipe to them when all they realistically did was tweak the dish a bit. In the example above, I doubt you invented cookies.

The cookies analogy was terrible because recipes are rarely credited, but even ignoring the terrible analogy the "recognition" argument still fails. If you wrote a blog post on how to set up kubernetes (or whatever), then it's fair enough that you get recognized for that specific blog post. If my friend asked me how to set up kubernetes, it wouldn't be cool for me to copy paste your blog post and send it over.

However similar to copyright, the recognition you deserve quickly drops off once it moves beyond that specific work. If I absorbed the knowledge from your blog post, then wrote another guide on setting up kubernetes, perhaps updated for my use case, it's unreasonable to require that you be credited. It might be nice, and often times people do, but it's also unreasonable if you wrote an angry letter demanding that you be credited. You weren't the inventor of kubernetes, and you probably got your knowledge of kubernetes from elsewhere (eg. the docs the creators made), so why should everyone have to credit you in perpetuity?

Re: Miasma: A tool to trap AI web scrapers in an endless poison pit

#174
post #28

> If you have a public website, they are already stealing your work. I have a public website, and web scrapers are stealing my work. I just stole this article, and you are stealing my comment. Thieves, thieves, and nothing but thieves!

> nothing but thieves! cool band btw

Re: Miasma: A tool to trap AI web scrapers in an endless poison pit

#175
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oh man. my comment was about the very human need to be recognized for something created, made, or thought by a person. People are ok with writing blog posts, they're ok with writing software, and they're ok with give it all for free, but they want their name attached and their contribution recognized.

>my comment was about the very human need to be recognized for something created, made, or thought by a person. And I specifically addressed that aspect: >The moral question is more ambiguous, but it's still pretty weak. Most recipes are uncredited, and it's unclear why someone can force everyone to attribute the recipe to them when all they realistically did was tweak the dish a bit. In the example above, I doubt yo…

your ability to not address my argument main point is something to behold. can't tell if you're doing on purpose or not.

if humans read my blog posts and then things without credit that would be fine. i like human eyeballs and i like them on my content. that's exactly the purpose of the blog post (_in this particular example_), to get human eyeballs on the content.

Re: Miasma: A tool to trap AI web scrapers in an endless poison pit

#176

certainly don't allow anyone to access your content. perhaps shut the site down just to be safe.

Accessing the shop by going through the wall with a tank is not the same as walking in the door. Hosting costs money. These botnets should be charged for the costs they incur

Re: Miasma: A tool to trap AI web scrapers in an endless poison pit

#177

I wish if there was some regulation which could force companies who scrape for (profit) to reveal who they are to the end websites, many new AI company don't seem to respect any decision made by the person who owns the website and shares their knowledge for other humans, only for it to get distilled for a few cents.

Yep, they are already working on de-anonymizing the internet.

Re: Miasma: A tool to trap AI web scrapers in an endless poison pit

#178

I dunno... it feels like the same approach as those people who tell you gleeful stories of how they kept a phone spammer on a call for 45 minutes: "That'll teach 'em, ha ha!" Do these types of techniques really work? I’m not convinced. Also, inserting hidden or misleading links is specifically a no-no for Google Search [0], who have this to say: We detect policy-violating practices both through automated systems and,…

> gleeful stories of how they kept a phone spammer on a call for 45 minutes: "That'll teach 'em, ha ha!" Do these types of techniques really work? I’m not convinced.

It’s one of the best time investments I’ve ever made. They just don’t call me anymore.

I think they have two lists: the “do not call” list, and the “unprofitable to call” list. You want to be on the latter list.

Re: Miasma: A tool to trap AI web scrapers in an endless poison pit

#179

I dunno... it feels like the same approach as those people who tell you gleeful stories of how they kept a phone spammer on a call for 45 minutes: "That'll teach 'em, ha ha!" Do these types of techniques really work? I’m not convinced. Also, inserting hidden or misleading links is specifically a no-no for Google Search [0], who have this to say: We detect policy-violating practices both through automated systems and,…

> it feels like the same approach as those people who tell you gleeful stories of how they kept a phone spammer on a call for 45 minutes: "That'll teach 'em, ha ha!" Do these types of techniques really work? I’m not convinced.

In 2000s there was some company in Russia selling English courses. It spammed so much, that people were really pissed off. To make long story short, the company disappeared from a public space when Golden Telecom joined the party of retaliatory "spam" calls and make computer to call the company using Golden Telecom modem pool.

So, yeah, you kinda can achieve something in this way, but to make sure you should lease a modem pool for that.

Re: Miasma: A tool to trap AI web scrapers in an endless poison pit

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if your site is dependent on ads, and since the only way for people to see those ads is coming to your site, then yes, you lose. If your site exists to share information, then the information gets disseminated, whether via LLM or some browser, it doesn't make a difference to me

Those are not the only two options. Why are you presenting the latter option as if it were mainstream? It's such a small percentage of use cases that it probably isn't even a rounding error. People who want to disseminate information also want the credit. I'd still like to know why you are presenting this false dichotomy. What reason do you have for presenting a use case that has fractions of a percentage as if it we…

> People who want to disseminate information also want the credit.

This is psychological projection.

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