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Miasma: A tool to trap AI web scrapers in an endless poison pit

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Re: Miasma: A tool to trap AI web scrapers in an endless poison pit

#91

Is there any evidence or hints that these actually work? It seems pretty reasonable that any scraper would already have mitigations for things like this as a function of just being on the internet.

About two years ago, I made up reference to a nonexistent python library and put code "using" it in just 5 GitHub repos. Several months later the free ChatGPT picked it up. So IMO it works.

Re: Miasma: A tool to trap AI web scrapers in an endless poison pit

#92

I dunno... it feels like the same approach as those people who tell you gleeful stories of how they kept a phone spammer on a call for 45 minutes: "That'll teach 'em, ha ha!" Do these types of techniques really work? I’m not convinced. Also, inserting hidden or misleading links is specifically a no-no for Google Search [0], who have this to say: We detect policy-violating practices both through automated systems and,…

One would assume legit spiders obey robots.txt.

Re: Miasma: A tool to trap AI web scrapers in an endless poison pit

#96
Could this lead to something like the Streisand effect? I imagine these bots work at a scale where humans in the loop only act when something deviates from the standard, so, if a bot flags something up with your website then you’re now in a list you previously weren’t. Now don’t ask me what they do with those lists, but I guess you will make the cut.

Re: Miasma: A tool to trap AI web scrapers in an endless poison pit

#97
Way back in the day I had a software product, with a basic system to prevent unauthorised sharing, since there was a small charge for it.

Every time I released an update, and new crack would appear. For the next six months I worked on improving the anti-copying code until I stumbled across an article by a coder in the same boat as me.

He realised he was now playing a game with some other coders where he make the copyprotection better, but the cracker would then have fun cracking it. It was a game of whack-a-mole.

I removed the copy protection, as he did, and got back to my primary role of serving good software to my customers.

I feel like trying to prevent AI bots, or any bots, from crawling a public web service, is a similar game of whack-a-mole, but one where you may also end up damaging your service.

Re: Miasma: A tool to trap AI web scrapers in an endless poison pit

#98
A related technique used to work so well for search engine spiders. I had some software i wrote called 'search engine cloaker'... this was back in the early 2000s... one of the first if not the first to do the shadowy "cloaking" stuff! We'd spin dummy content from lists of keywords and it was just piles and piles. We made it a bit smarter using Markov chains to make the sentences somewhat sensible. We'd auto-interlink and get 1000s of links. It eventually stopped working... but it took a long while for that to happen. We licensed the software to others. I rationalized it because I felt, hey, we have to write crappy copy for this stupid "SEO" thing, so let's just automate that and we'll give the spiders what they seem to want.

Re: Miasma: A tool to trap AI web scrapers in an endless poison pit

#99

Why do this though? It's like if someone was trying to "trap" search crawlers back in the early 2000s. Seems counterproductive

search crawlers used to bring people TO your site llm boots are used to keep people OUT of your site, because knowledge is indexed and distributed by corporations.

So if your site is dependent on ads, and since the only way for people to see those ads is coming to your site, then yes, you lose.

If your site exists to share information, then the information gets disseminated, whether via LLM or some browser, it doesn't make a difference to me

Re: Miasma: A tool to trap AI web scrapers in an endless poison pit

#100

I dunno... it feels like the same approach as those people who tell you gleeful stories of how they kept a phone spammer on a call for 45 minutes: "That'll teach 'em, ha ha!" Do these types of techniques really work? I’m not convinced. Also, inserting hidden or misleading links is specifically a no-no for Google Search [0], who have this to say: We detect policy-violating practices both through automated systems and,…

Also, inserting hidden or misleading links is specifically a no-no for Google Search [0]

Depending on your goals, this may be a pro or a con. I, personally, would like to see a return of "small web" human-centric communities. If there were tools that include anti-scraping, anti-Google (and other large search crawlers) as well as a small web search index for humans to find these sites, this idea becomes a real possibility.

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