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Android’s new sideload settings will carry over to new devices

androidauthority.com

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Re: Android’s new sideload settings will carry over to new devices

#111

Post by Taterr »

vanviegen wrote: post #108
izacus wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let's discuss a good solution instead of this boring repetitive outrage.

Look at the attack vectors that are actually being used, and address them specifically, with minimally invasive measures. If the problem is apps that allow remote control of your device, that people can be socially engineered into installing, put up barriers to gaining just that permissions. That approach would actually help motivate the problem (as scammers can now just use Google-approved apps for such things). If…

I am quite genuinely curious what you think the best solution to prevent someone instructing a tech illiterate person over the phone to click through every permission warning about a malicious app they're installing is? No amount of scary menus will work. I feel like they only have 2 options, which is to limit some permissions without any exceptions (making their platform more closed), or make it harder to install apps as a whole.

Do you have a better idea?

Re: Android’s new sideload settings will carry over to new devices

#112

Post by elwebmaster »

izacus wrote: post #93
eloox wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be, but I think you are missing the point of the outrage: this solution is not good.

So let's discuss a good solution instead of this boring repetitive outrage.

First we need to understand what the root cause of the problem really is then we can discuss solutions. All we've been told is that "Android users are getting scammed, we are going to make side loading impossible". There is no clear cause and effect established, no data shared with the public on what percent of scams were caused by sideloaded apps and how the scams actually operate for us to be able to accept the solution.

Re: Android’s new sideload settings will carry over to new devices

#113

Post by procaryote »

Taterr wrote: post #103
schubidubiduba wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does nobody ever think of the poor megacorporation? I mean maybe you're even right and they care a little bit about people being scammed. But if you believe that the scamming thing is any more than a pretense for further establishing Google's absolute control over the Android ecosystem, that is just very naive. Their goal is to make money. Apps installed outside of Google mean less money for them. Ergo, consumer'…

I understand usually the megacorporation is simply being anti-consumer with these kinds of changes, and who knows maybe this is the same. But I think this might be an actual exception. They seem to be actually implementing a lot of high effort scam protection features recently in android so unless they did all of that just as an excuse to make side loading harder then they've fooled me. https://security.googleblog.co…

It's pretty easy to make up a reasonable sounding excuse for something you do for your own profit as a company. If they don't even provide any statistic on how frequent these scams are, it can be just words

Also, if your bank 2fa code is in your notifications, you should switch 2fa methods to something other than sms, or switch banks.

Re: Android’s new sideload settings will carry over to new devices

#114

Post by sunaookami »

Zak wrote: post #7

It's a very small concession. The high initial friction still means when someone comes to me with a problem and I tell them the solution is in F-Droid, they have to wait a day. Most give up and pick a different, less trustworthy solution from Google Play.

You can bypass the wait time with adb install at least.

Re: Android’s new sideload settings will carry over to new devices

#115

Post by Ms-J »

What is this steaming pile of shit? Android and Google are bending their customers over a table and ramming it into their asses.

If a device doesn't allow the user full control, then it isn't your device.

You are renting it from a duopoly that will bend over backwards to give all your data to the government! Also selling it to other corporations.

It is no excuse that an extremely small amount of ancient people over 85 who have never used technology in their life got scammed by some foreigner who worked them over for a full day or two.

That will happen regardless of whatever immoral restrictions are placed on our devices.

If you aren't smart enough to use the tech, don't use it.

Re: Android’s new sideload settings will carry over to new devices

#116

Post by sunaookami »

Taterr wrote: post #103
schubidubiduba wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does nobody ever think of the poor megacorporation? I mean maybe you're even right and they care a little bit about people being scammed. But if you believe that the scamming thing is any more than a pretense for further establishing Google's absolute control over the Android ecosystem, that is just very naive. Their goal is to make money. Apps installed outside of Google mean less money for them. Ergo, consumer'…

I understand usually the megacorporation is simply being anti-consumer with these kinds of changes, and who knows maybe this is the same. But I think this might be an actual exception. They seem to be actually implementing a lot of high effort scam protection features recently in android so unless they did all of that just as an excuse to make side loading harder then they've fooled me. https://security.googleblog.co…

Do you also believe mass surveillance is necessary to protect children?

Re: Android’s new sideload settings will carry over to new devices

#117

Post by Ms-J »

AlBugdy wrote: post #48
PufPufPuf wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you want to root? I didn't really feel the need for the past few years.

Because my new phone would be my new phone. And a phone is a computer. That should be enough of a reason. I'm quite surprised people who post here don't get that. I've been lurking for years even though my account is new and even though general hackerishness here has gotten a bit reduced over the years, but it's still Hacker News, not ConsumerNews. No offense implied - I just hoped I'd see more people willing to clai…

Exactly. It is my device. End of story.

If I could point out, the vast majority of people you see writing things as stupid as that are either have a huge stake in the company/industry or the government.

Thanks for all of your other comments in this thread I read them all and it is such useful advice for everyone, even seasoned security people.

It isn't natural to want less freedom.

Re: Android’s new sideload settings will carry over to new devices

#118

Post by plausibility »

p0w3n3d wrote: post #83
Havoc wrote: post #73

We hereby grant you a conditional right to install software on the device you "own", subject to conditions, and terms, but only under certain circumstances and only so long as it pleases us. Modern handheld computing is such a shitshow...

Yeah, to me android is another Linux machine. I can change the date and for the device it's tomorrow. At least should be. What then? Will it accept the apk I just installed because it's tomorrow? Or reject because of no lease token from the one-almighty-Google? Or maybe it won't work at all when offline even with offline apk?

If I was a hostile phone OS designer, I would make it use the time reference given by nearby cell networks, GPS, or an RTC in the motherboard rather than the local clock. That’s closer to ‘true’ time if you want to make sure a day has actually passed.

Re: Android’s new sideload settings will carry over to new devices

#119

Post by Ms-J »

RedComet wrote: post #29
hparadiz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you know? If one elderly person gets scammed we all deserve to be infantilized.

Wouldn't it be something if, given all the surveillance already in place, law enforcement punished the scammers instead of the innocent?

But then how would they police what you install?

Maybe you have the criminal idea of installing an adblocker, for example.

That is not allowed since corporations need to make money.

The government and ad networks need to track you for your benefit.

Ads are needed before listening to each minute of a song.

You must submit to crpyto miners running in the background from the ads, increasing your electricity bill and pollution.

Only USA sanctioned and approved ads are allowed, also. We wouldn't want you seeing an ad from a competing entity, right?

If you install an ablocker, you are a terrorist and broke 324582 American laws.

Re: Android’s new sideload settings will carry over to new devices

#120

Post by IshKebab »

Havoc wrote: post #73

We hereby grant you a conditional right to install software on the device you "own", subject to conditions, and terms, but only under certain circumstances and only so long as it pleases us. Modern handheld computing is such a shitshow...

Come on, this is a totally reasonable approach that should help a bit with high pressure scan tactics but doesn't really hurt side-loading.

As long as they keep it like this. The existence of the "only allow side-loading for 7 days" option is definitely worrying.

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