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Further human + AI + proof assistant work on Knuth's "Claude Cycles" problem

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Re: Further human + AI + proof assistant work on Knuth's "Claude Cycles" problem

#21

Post by marsten »

drfloyd51 wrote: post #16
DrewADesign wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I went to the coffeeshop and drank very good coffee listening to music. Then at night I sat and had a beer thinking about T.S. Eliot's 'The Wasteland', the effect of industrialization in England at that time and his views of how ennui affected the aristocracy. Well, for those among us that are not aristocracy already, except for the vanishingly small number of people required to oversee such processes, we’re probab…

I kind of feel like software engineers working on improving AI are traitors working against other SE’s trying to make a living. However… I have to acknowledge my craft of SE has been putting people out of work for decades. I myself came up with business process improvement that directly let the company release about 20 people. I did this twice. So… fair play.

In the grand scheme it's good to invent things that replace human labor. It frees up people to do more interesting things. The goal should be to put everyone out of a job.

Re: Further human + AI + proof assistant work on Knuth's "Claude Cycles" problem

#22

Post by dijksterhuis »

TrainedMonkey wrote: post #7
adrithmetiqa wrote: post #2

Super interesting but what does this mean for us mere mortals?

My understanding is that, if confirmed, this demonstrates that AI can find novel solutions. This is a strong counterpoint to generative-AI-is-strictly-limited-to-training-data.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaFold ...

we've had AlphaFold for a while. it's not a novel that we have ML solutions that can find, erm, novel solutions.

however, by and large, most LLMs as typically used by most individuals aren't solving novel problems. and in those scenarios, we often end up with regurgitated/most common/lowest common denominator outputs... it's a probability distribution thing.

Re: Further human + AI + proof assistant work on Knuth's "Claude Cycles" problem

#23

Post by pixl97 »

marsten wrote: post #21
drfloyd51 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of feel like software engineers working on improving AI are traitors working against other SE’s trying to make a living. However… I have to acknowledge my craft of SE has been putting people out of work for decades. I myself came up with business process improvement that directly let the company release about 20 people. I did this twice. So… fair play.

In the grand scheme it's good to invent things that replace human labor. It frees up people to do more interesting things. The goal should be to put everyone out of a job.

>It frees up people to do more interesting things

Like beg on the corners and starve in the street? Trying to figure out how the basics of capitalism where labor is exchanged for money is not going to work well when the only jobs left are side gigs. Something will have to change and a lot of People will fight said change.

Re: Further human + AI + proof assistant work on Knuth's "Claude Cycles" problem

#24

Post by piloto_ciego »

NitpickLawyer wrote: post #4
brcmthrowaway wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learn plumbing

I know your reply was half joking, so please take this the same way, but ... are you sure about that? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1ip68Vv7NE

This is truly amazing. Do people not really realize how amazing stuff like this is? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here, but man, it certainly feels like we're on the edge of something quite amazing...

Re: Further human + AI + proof assistant work on Knuth's "Claude Cycles" problem

#25

Post by zoogeny »

radu_floricica wrote: post #18
brcmthrowaway wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learn plumbing

This is kindof the opposite? Man + AI > either man or AI. I'd say "learn to work with Claude" is the better lesson here.

For now. The term people use is "centaur", like the half-man-half-horse of mythology.

The AI CEO's are pointing out that when chess was "solved", in that Kasparov was famously beaten by deep blue, there was a window of time after that event where grandmasters + computers were the strongest players. The knowledge/experience of a grandmaster paired with the search/scoring of the engines was an unbeatable pair.

However, that was just a window in time. Eventually engines alone were capable of beating grandmaster + engine pairs. Think about that carefully. It implies something. The human involvement eventually became an impediment.

Whether you believe this will transfer to other domains is up to you to decide.

Re: Further human + AI + proof assistant work on Knuth's "Claude Cycles" problem

#27

Post by virtue3 »

dataviz1000 wrote: post #5
adrithmetiqa wrote: post #2

Super interesting but what does this mean for us mere mortals?

I got Claude to self reference and update its own instructions to solve making a typed proxy API of any website. After a week, scores of iterations, it can reverse engineer any website. The first few days I had to be deeply involved with each iteration loop. Domain knowledge is helpful. Each time I saw a problem I would ask Claude to update its instructions so it doesn't happen again. Then less and less. Eventually i…

That's fucking insane. Thank you for sharing.

I had a bad feeling we were basically already there.

Re: Further human + AI + proof assistant work on Knuth's "Claude Cycles" problem

#28

Post by xvector »

troupo wrote: post #20
dataviz1000 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got Claude to self reference and update its own instructions to solve making a typed proxy API of any website. After a week, scores of iterations, it can reverse engineer any website. The first few days I had to be deeply involved with each iteration loop. Domain knowledge is helpful. Each time I saw a problem I would ask Claude to update its instructions so it doesn't happen again. Then less and less. Eventually i…

> I would go for a 2 or 3 hour walk with my phone using the remote control feature looking every 5 - 10 minutes 2-3 hours "walking" while having to check in every 5-10 minutes? If I have to check in every 5-10 minutes, I won't taste coffee or hear that there's good music playing.

Just Claude code a push notification feature then

Re: Further human + AI + proof assistant work on Knuth's "Claude Cycles" problem

#29

Post by colechristensen »

dataviz1000 wrote: post #5
adrithmetiqa wrote: post #2

Super interesting but what does this mean for us mere mortals?

I got Claude to self reference and update its own instructions to solve making a typed proxy API of any website. After a week, scores of iterations, it can reverse engineer any website. The first few days I had to be deeply involved with each iteration loop. Domain knowledge is helpful. Each time I saw a problem I would ask Claude to update its instructions so it doesn't happen again. Then less and less. Eventually i…

I have similar amounts of success (pretty good!) standing in line at a coffee shop talking to people who work for me through some action that needs to be taken and doing the same with AI.

However I do not trust AI anywhere near as much as I trust the humans. The AI is super capable but also occasionally a psychopath toddler. I sat in amused astonishment when faced with job 2 not running because job 1 was failing Claude went in to the database, changed the failure record to success, triggered job 2 which produced harmful garbage, and then claimed victory. Only the most troubled person would even think of doing that, but Claude thought it was the best solution.

Re: Further human + AI + proof assistant work on Knuth's "Claude Cycles" problem

#30

Post by falcor84 »

frizlab wrote: post #15
dataviz1000 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got Claude to self reference and update its own instructions to solve making a typed proxy API of any website. After a week, scores of iterations, it can reverse engineer any website. The first few days I had to be deeply involved with each iteration loop. Domain knowledge is helpful. Each time I saw a problem I would ask Claude to update its instructions so it doesn't happen again. Then less and less. Eventually i…

> I would go for a 2 or 3 hour walk with my phone using the remote control feature looking every 5 - 10 minutes to make sure it doesn't need human help. That is a nightmarish scenario tbh

Nightmarish?! In comparison to the average person's actual job? I'm pretty sure that many people out there would sign up for a battle royale for a chance at such a job.
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