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‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

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Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#301

Post by DavidPiper »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #174
te_chris wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wild that you're getting downvoted for saying something so obvious. Weird.

I didn't downvote them, and I don't really disagree with them (that much). But I do disagree with the idea that what they're saying is "something so obvious". I think the evidence is overwhelming that renewables plus storage will provide the bulk of our energy needs, or at least electricity needs, in the very near future. But I think the idea that it will be some sort of libertarian/individualistic utopia if we're al…

> A much more "obvious" solution IMO is to invest in efficient, grid-scale renewable generation combined with robust storage tiers, as well us long overdue updates to the grid.

Individual rooftop solar + home batteries _is_ how we're doing this in Australia. You can connect your home setup directly to the wholesale grid and import/export electricity at appropriate times.

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#302

Post by LunaSea »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #196
LunaSea wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the transition to renewables , but there is nothing inevitable about it. We don't produce solar panels or have the materials to produce them in Europe. So we're just as dependent on imports as before.

Those imports have a much longer half life than barrels of oil.

But at the moments they cover only a tiny percentage of our electricity needs, not even talking about storage or the heating needs which usually come from gas.

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#303

Post by fc417fc802 »

LunaSea wrote: post #302
fc417fc802 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those imports have a much longer half life than barrels of oil.

But at the moments they cover only a tiny percentage of our electricity needs, not even talking about storage or the heating needs which usually come from gas.

You objected that switching to solar would still leave the EU dependent on imports. Even if that is true the dependence isn't remotely equivalent.

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#304

Post by mytailorisrich »

masklinn wrote: post #268
mytailorisrich wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well France did move to electric everything (cooking, hot water, heating) in the past thanks to ample nuclear electricity production (and possibly not too harsh winters). Unfortunately they let their nuclear programme decay and are struggling now (EU grid integration does not help)... I think a big part of the push to install heat pumps now is that it is understood that electricity production is in dire straights, ta…

> hot water, heating Not really. Urban flats frequently got resistive heating (rather than heat pumps) but when France finally phased out furnace oil it phased in gas heating (again instead of heat pumps). And EU grid integration was mostly a boon, at least to EDF, with the country able to export its large stable supply and arbitrage between its neighbours. It largely missed its opportunity and should have ramped up…

What "not really"? Electric hot water and electric heating is very common. Almost 40% of homes have electric heating and that's the top heating type [1]...

[1] https://franfinance.com/les-francais-et-le-chauffage-de-leur...

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#305

Post by usuryofnicks »

nutjob2 wrote: post #288
usuryofnicks wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>now the panels have plunged in price so much, you just deploy more panels It's not really, the sun doesen't rise above the horizon for over a month where I live. quadrupling zero output is still zero. The country has massive renewable so by the time solar would generate something, electricity is already super cheap

You're clearly an outlier, 99% of installs will not have that problem.

The issue persists across the nordic countries, I argue that climate matters a lot to the type of power you're looking to generate.

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#306

Post by mixermachine »

Gasp0de wrote: post #295

I live in Germany, installed a micro solar system in September 2024. Since then, we've been producing 45% of our electricity consumption ourselves. This has saved us 550€, while the initial cost was around 800€. So this September, after 2 years, the system will have paid for itself.

Crazy thing is, the cost of these systems has gone down even further since then. You can get a 800w plug-in solar set with panels and an inverter for around 200€. Shipping might be 70€ or you can pick it up locally at the dealer. Add another 50-100€ for attachment material and you are good.

So for 250 to 400€ you can get a system that will break even latest after four years, likely earlier.

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#307

Post by mixermachine »

mmlkrx wrote: post #299
Gasp0de wrote: post #295

I live in Germany, installed a micro solar system in September 2024. Since then, we've been producing 45% of our electricity consumption ourselves. This has saved us 550€, while the initial cost was around 800€. So this September, after 2 years, the system will have paid for itself.

Could you provide more details? 800 Euros sounds very cheap while being able to produce 45% of your electricity needs. Did you mount it on your roof or a balcony or wall? How much power does it produce? Very curious to hear more details or even recommendations (I too live in Germany).

Have a look here:

https://shop-sicatron.de/products/sicatron-910w-balkonkraftw...

You still need attachment material for your balcony.

Keep in mind that this system will input all it's power into your power grid. If you don't use the power it will go directly into the public grid.

Still, really good cost saving measure.

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#308

Post by masklinn »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #304
masklinn wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hot water, heating Not really. Urban flats frequently got resistive heating (rather than heat pumps) but when France finally phased out furnace oil it phased in gas heating (again instead of heat pumps). And EU grid integration was mostly a boon, at least to EDF, with the country able to export its large stable supply and arbitrage between its neighbours. It largely missed its opportunity and should have ramped up…

What "not really"? Electric hot water and electric heating is very common. Almost 40% of homes have electric heating and that's the top heating type [1]... [1] https://franfinance.com/les-francais-et-le-chauffage-de-leur...

> Almost 40% of homes have electric heating and that's the top heating type

It's 40% of households not homes, and per your link it's 55% of rentals.

That's the urban flats I mentioned, they use inefficient resistive heating because that's cheap to install (no plumbing and no vents, just the electrician adding a circuit per radiator from the box).

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#309

Post by PowerElectronix »

noosphr wrote: post #274
PowerElectronix wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But now we have storage, distributed production, power meters, etc. It's relatively easy to set up a grid in which several houses produce, storage and exchange energy with a simplified free market pricing system. Alas, in most countries it's illegal because you aren't allowed to set up such a network. Energy is one of the big control levers the State has over people.

Again this was done in the 19th century. It is horribly inefficient. The only reason why it seems like a good idea today is because power companies are now rentieers instead of service provides.

How is it inefficient? You have production, storage and consumption right next to each other. You just miss the high voltage lines required to not lose a lot of energy that is produced hundreds of miles away and the transformers and switched that come with it. I would even say that it can be more efficient.

Back in the day having hundreds of nets that are not interconnectable and running everything on coal or gas made things hard to scale. But today interconnections can easily be done through a converter, you don't even have to match demand and production as you have storage and the more productors available, the cheaper and more stable the energy gets.

You also have individuals on the microgrid that actually care about the quality of the microgrid.

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#310

Post by shafyy »

mixermachine wrote: post #307
mmlkrx wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you provide more details? 800 Euros sounds very cheap while being able to produce 45% of your electricity needs. Did you mount it on your roof or a balcony or wall? How much power does it produce? Very curious to hear more details or even recommendations (I too live in Germany).

Have a look here: https://shop-sicatron.de/products/sicatron-910w-balkonkraftw... You still need attachment material for your balcony. Keep in mind that this system will input all it's power into your power grid. If you don't use the power it will go directly into the public grid. Still, really good cost saving measure.

Do you own one of these? If yes, are you happy with the quality?
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