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‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

euronews.com

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Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#181

Post by fc417fc802 »

aaronmdjones wrote: post #169
labcomputer wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Unidirectional breakers” aren’t a thing for AC circuits.

Yes they are. Current alternates direction, but power usually only flows in one direction, from the input terminal (from the bus bar) to the output terminal (that the circuit is wired into). If the circuit will be supplying power too (e.g. battery storage, an EV and EVSE that supports powering the house from the EV, etc) then you need a bidirectional RCBO. People with no differential fault protection need not worry a…

I don't follow you regarding unidirectional meters and electricity theft. How does that work?

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#182

Post by [deleted] »

LunaSea wrote: post #178
mbgerring wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not weird if you’ve been participating in discussions on clean energy since the beginning of this century. The inevitability of the energy transition has been obvious for so long, and even when it’s done there will be cranks insisting that it’ll never work.

I like the transition to renewables , but there is nothing inevitable about it. We don't produce solar panels or have the materials to produce them in Europe. So we're just as dependent on imports as before.

[deleted]

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#183

Post by JumpCrisscross »

bokohut wrote: post #105

Several recent HN posts about "time" and these correlate superbly in relation to the now obvious, to nearly all, global energy issues. Those proactive in a reactive world are often mocked and laughed at until as such passage of time is achieved for those only reactive to learn of the proactive's hindsight choices. For those in the United States aware of the 'behind the scenes' energy grid issues this insight reflects…

> Those proactive in a reactive world are often mocked and laughed at

I'm going to start calling this a Jehovah's Witness complex. Where amplified, mostly imagined mockery of an incredibly dominant view, at least in group, is used as evidence of that view's righteousness and, by extension, rightness.

> prices will not be dropping...Energy grid decentralization is occurring

Cost versus resilience. A low-cost grid has lots of centralised production earning economies of scale. A highly-resilient system doesn't even need a grid, but it's going to be high cost.

The correct answer is in between. Rural electrification should be done entirely decentralised. Meanwhile, trying to run a city (or even most industry) on de-centralised power is a recipe for ruin.

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#185

Post by JumpCrisscross »

mbgerring wrote: post #135
te_chris wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wild that you're getting downvoted for saying something so obvious. Weird.

Not weird if you’ve been participating in discussions on clean energy since the beginning of this century. The inevitability of the energy transition has been obvious for so long, and even when it’s done there will be cranks insisting that it’ll never work.

> inevitability of the energy transition

Huge difference between tranistioning to renewables and going completely de-centralised. Even if we put a limit to the latter at the community level, it's a recipe for de-industrialisation. Centralised power production, even with renewables, has economies of scale, and those economies amplify with volatile demand sources, e.g. residences.

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#186

Post by BLKNSLVR »

Aboutplants wrote: post #164

In the US, Distribution costs (the separate charge outside of your energy cost on your utility bill) are also incredibly high and going to keep rising as infrastructure costs mount. In my area, my distribution costs is actually more than my energy cost so the only way I ever think about solar is if I can decouple from the grid completely and get rid of those distribution costs. Got a long lo no ways to go

There's talk about this in Australia too, to keep the power companies viable or to maintain their profit margins I'm not sure but I know to which option my opinion leans.

It's a worse deal for people who have spent the capital to reduce their ongoing expenses, and it's a worse deal for people who have very low electricity usage (likely poorer people and those who are naturally frugal). It's possibly a better deal for heavy electricity users, and I'm not sure that's who should be rewarded. No, I am sure: they shouldn't be rewarded.

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#187

Post by wat10000 »

hvb2 wrote: post #152
wat10000 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Net metering only makes sense as a way to incentivize solar installations. Looking at the economics, it's not something any utility would offer willingly. It's like if the grocery store let you give them milk for a credit at full price. (Let's ignore the sanitary/health/quality issues that would come up.) You decide to buy a cow and you drink that milk. Sometimes you need more than your cow can give so you buy extra…

> It's like if the grocery store let you give them milk for a credit at full price. I know of quite a few places where through net metering you don't get full price, you get the wholesale rate for your production which is significantly less.

Isn't that something other than net metering? Wikipedia calls that one "net purchase and sale."

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#188

Post by phyzome »

rdtsc wrote: post #100
metalman wrote: post #5

to answer the first question in the article "Many consumers want to know how long it will take them to make back the upfront costs of solar" my answer is that the payback is imediate, right from the first moment watching as energy is generated out of thin air, and the sudden relief from getting off the energy angst missery-go-round, and the sheer borring inertness of solar pv as it does the thing with zero detectable…

>> "Many consumers want to know how long it will take them to make back the upfront costs of solar" > my answer is that the payback is imediate, So if I pay $35k for an install, I get a $35k check the first time I connect it to the grid? Pretty sure it doesn't work that way. But it would be a nice subsidy from the government if they were really motivated. I guess you're saying you start to feel good and validated to…

From the article:

> According to Solar Power Europe, it takes an average of two to six years to recoup the cost of the system, depending on what you paid for it, its size and where you mount it.

And then it just keeps working for decades. There's degradation, but even after 25 years I believe it's down to maybe 85% output, which is still huge for something with essentially no operating costs.

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#189

Post by fc417fc802 »

vkou wrote: post #176
PowerElectronix wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm every day more convinced that the only reasonable future of energy production is distributed solar and storage with microgrids at the neighbourhood level or so. Anything bigger in scale is prone to being shittified to the limit by public entities.

I can tell you've never dealt with an HOA or Strata before. Neighbourhood-level organizations of busybodies are way ahead of everyone else on winning the race to shittification. Putting them in charge of your electricity won't be all sunshine and rainbows.

I'd rather the county utility manage such a neighborhood level grid; I don't trust my neighbors over the long term to consistently make good decisions regarding such technical matters. But then that's sort of what the major grid operators already do with smaller localized circuits. It's just that it was all built multiple decades ago with centralized unidirectional distribution in mind.

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#190

Post by phyzome »

dust42 wrote: post #6

I once read an article that in Berlin the sewage system is flushed with fresh water because too many people have installed water saving toilet flushers. So plenty of people bought these water savers and now the price of water has gone up because the water that is directly flushed needs to be paid too. The 'balcony power stations' are the same thing. They get subsidised, and you even get a fixed kWh price when pushing…

And exactly as soon as your prediction comes true, it will become obvious for people to buy battery banks that perform temporal arbitrage. Which will then mostly solve the issue.
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