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Ask HN: Founders of estonian e-businesses – is it worth it?

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Re: Ask HN: Founders of estonian e-businesses – is it worth it?

#51
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they wouldn't be wrong.

Except it does not work that way in the US, you can freely incorporate in any state without worrying about this kind of tax drama. The EU really needs to improve the integration of their single market, as this is precisely the kind of barrier preventing people from exploring what other EU states have to offer.

It does here, at least in California. eg if you live in CA and own a DE llc, that llc will have income apportioned to CA.

Re: Ask HN: Founders of estonian e-businesses – is it worth it?

#52

You said you are from Germany but not where you are now. If you are still in Germany, forget it. Just because you incorporate outside of Germany does not exempt your from any taxes (and its beauraucracies) in Germany. That is, even with an estonian corporation, you will owe german corporate taxes (plural - one goes to the state one to the county - a.k.a. Körperschaftsteuer and Gewerbesteuer). That implies you will ha…

This is why I was wondering what the point was. Surely most countries will claim taxes from you if you work there, so having an Estonian entity will do little?

Can someone explain the actual benefit of sitting in a developed country and charging via Estonia?

Re: Ask HN: Founders of estonian e-businesses – is it worth it?

#53
post #19

Oh there will be a lot of issues in the future because Germany says thst your company is in Germany because you work from there. So you have to do taxes in Estonia and in Germany. And prepare for a lot of tax issues if you dont have a good tax advisor.

>Germany says that your company is in Germany because you work from there. Forgive my ignorance, I have never really thought about this before and I may be missing something very obvious here. Isn't that kind of true , though? For instance, if I am a citizen of Japan, live there, and run my remote business from there, but the business that I run exclusively makes money from people in Portugal and Brazil, it would be…

> For instance, if I am a citizen of Japan, live there, and run my remote business from there, but the business that I run exclusively makes money from people in Portugal and Brazil, it would be true that my revenue is being generated in those other countries

That really depends on the nature of your business. If you're hosting a web application in Japan then I'd argue you're still doing business in Japan. Same if you're a contractor for companies or individuals abroad. A grey area is if you host an application abroad. You technically do business abroad, but it's unlikely anybody will come after you for tax.

You clearly owe tax abroad if you operate legal entities that are incorporated abroad. Then we enter the vast and diverse field of how to (ab)use taxation and corporate law of different countries to structure your business to avoid as much tax and bureaucracy as possible. How much of that is morally appropriate according to the points you raised is a whole different question.

Disclaimer: I'm neither a lawyer nor a tax advisor.

Re: Ask HN: Founders of estonian e-businesses – is it worth it?

#54
Idk where you are coming from but I am Greek and compared to Greece there is ZERO bureaucracy. You send your documents pretty much whenever you like, you don't get fined for stupid things and you just need to prepare the financial report once per year. We are talking about a very clear and flat system. 20% tax on dividend and for good tax payers it can go as low as 14% as far as I remember. The only "bureaucracy" things is that you have to travel all the way to your country's Estonian embassy to get your e-residency card. Last but not least, don't count on Estonian banks. They don't like e-residents and even if they like them today, don't trust them. reply

Re: Ask HN: Founders of estonian e-businesses – is it worth it?

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've considered it as a Spanish resident, but don't you have to live six months there to be considered a fiscal resident? Are people regularly operating them from outside Estonia?

(Not a tax professional so don't take my word for it) But I think you're talking about individual fiscal residency. A company you create can technically not be resident where you live so long as you can demonstrate that the principal activities of the company do not take place where you live. So with Spain, if a decent percent of your customers are Spanish and you're the only member of the company, then Spain would h…

The keyword to look for is CFC (controlled foreign corporation). The details depend on the country.

Re: Ask HN: Founders of estonian e-businesses – is it worth it?

#57
post #2

Not answering your question directly but accounting and taxes are a thing everywhere. EU rules make accounting for companies quite complicated. Focus on your business, open the smallest and simplest entity you can to validate your product before spending time and money optimizing or scaling things. That being said, I’m familiar with GmbHs in Germany and I would advise against going this route unless funding is availa…

"accounting and taxes are a thing everywhere. EU rules make accounting for companies quite complicated" >> this is the most wrong thing ever. You cannot compare the one click accounting in estonia with german kafkaesk absurdity designed to grind you down. How things are implemented are drastically different in countries even if both in the EU.

If you have a company in estonia but you reside and fully control it from Germany, you might be liable for taxation in Germany due to CFC laws.

Re: Ask HN: Founders of estonian e-businesses – is it worth it?

#58
post #18

I've had companies in a few different jurisdictions, including a Delaware C Corp[1] and currently an OÜ through Estonia's e-residency program. Yes, it is fantastic and delivers on all of the promises. The only potential headache is that you must collect your e-residency card from an embassy which, depending on your location, might require travel to a nearby country. I used Xolo but there are lots of agents in the dir…

The U.S. is not a great place for offshore business registration mostly because the reporting requirements around taxation for foreign-owned businesses are so severe. It's just a lot of useless paperwork.

Re: Ask HN: Founders of estonian e-businesses – is it worth it?

#59
post #51
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it does not work that way in the US, you can freely incorporate in any state without worrying about this kind of tax drama. The EU really needs to improve the integration of their single market, as this is precisely the kind of barrier preventing people from exploring what other EU states have to offer.

It does here, at least in California. eg if you live in CA and own a DE llc, that llc will have income apportioned to CA.

Not quiet. Your profits from the business will just get taxed as a CA resident to your personally.

If an LLC does activity in California, it's subject to income apportionment in CA.

Re: Ask HN: Founders of estonian e-businesses – is it worth it?

#60
post #18

I've had companies in a few different jurisdictions, including a Delaware C Corp[1] and currently an OÜ through Estonia's e-residency program. Yes, it is fantastic and delivers on all of the promises. The only potential headache is that you must collect your e-residency card from an embassy which, depending on your location, might require travel to a nearby country. I used Xolo but there are lots of agents in the dir…

The U.S. is not a great place for offshore business registration mostly because the reporting requirements around taxation for foreign-owned businesses are so severe. It's just a lot of useless paperwork.

> reporting requirements around taxation for foreign-owned businesses are so severe.

What exactly are you referring to? This doesn't match my experience at all.

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