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AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

theguardian.com

291–300 of 427 posts

Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#291
post #23

"Three clicks convert a data point on the map into a formal detection and move it into a targeting pipeline. These targets then move through columns representing different decision-making processes and rules of engagement. The system recommends how to strike each target – which aircraft, drone or missile to use, which weapon to pair with it – what the military calls a “course of action”. The officer selects from the…

We learned that Israel was going to strike, so the US decided to jump on board. Do we know how long of a notice Israel gave the US? What you're attributing to as a thought out plan of attack seems to imply plenty of time. I don't think it's unreasonable for Israel to have learned of the meeting with little notice, deliberated internally for however long, and then told the US about it with not much time. I could totally see where under current Pentagon leadership, three clicks would have been the reaction. Yes, the US had been saber rattling and building pressure. That's probably part of why the Iranian leadership decided to meet. Whatever plans the US might have had went out the window when Israel called up and said we're striking now.

Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iran has never targeted the US but if they did, I would assume they would hit military targets.

Iran and its proxies frequently target civilians. They would make an exception for the US?

How many American civilians have Iran killed? I would not consider Zionists to be civilians, they're literally living on stolen land.

Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>At the US

So Iran kills untold innocent children and innocents but because they havent yet launched an attack on american soil(they absolutely could) its immoral to stop them from killing more children and innocents? Doesnt make sense to me. Thats before we even get to the major economic damage their terrorist network has caused. The US morally must just sit back while Iran funds and arms the group that routinely shuts down gl…

There's literally zero proof that Iran killed any innocent children.

Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#294
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iran has been waging war since the Islamic Revolution and the US claims that there was a threat of attack on US bases and US interests and therefore the attack was in self defense. The body that decides is the UNSC and given the US has veto powers it's not going to obviously declare the US attack illegal. From Israel's perspective there's an even stronger self defense argument given the amount of missiles aimed at Is…

> the US claims that there was a threat of attack What the US claims is really not a strong source of anything, and I'm saying that as an American. The most compelling reasoning is that Israel was going to do something so US decision makers decided joining was the best worst decision, and I'm being very bend over backwards generous with that. Anything else is just excuses trying to cover it up. It seems obvious now t…

> If the US thought an Iranian retaliation from an Israeli strike would be to attack US assets

A reasonable belief, because Iran in fact responded to the US+Israeli strikes by attacking US allies and even neutral nations like Qatar.

And why should we doubt that Iran would have closed the Strait of Hormuz even if the US had not attacked, leaving Israel to attack alone? The strategic calculation (threaten the world economy so other nations oppose the war) would have been the same.

Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

No. No childs life is worth some hypothetical regime change. There is no greater evil in this scenario than a hypothetical greater good attempts at justifying this.

What are the lives of the next 10 thousand protesters the regime will kill worth?

Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they did, and anyway you're just trying to redirect to a different question.

No, it's core to the question of whether or not you should feel morally outraged by the targeting mistake. Which is better, leave the regime alone to continue murdering its own citizens, or run the risk of accidentally bombing a hundred schoolchildren? It's a pretty classic trolley problem.

No it isn't. You're assuming perfect information, when the reality is nowhere near as clear. I certainly believe that Iran killed a lot of protesters recently. Undoubtedly some of them were innocent. Some others were collaborators; Israel is well known to be engaged in a shadow war with Iran and to have infiltrated a large number of people within the Iranian security apparatus. I'm thus extremely skeptical of any specific claims around numbers for the foreseeable future.

The problem with this simplistic utilitarianism is that assumes a degree of omniscience that doesn't exist. You can excuse any atrocity by claiming it's an unavoidable by product of a high-minded end. Life rarely presents neat classic trolley problems, and even if it did there are many unknowns; for example, are you sacrificing the life of one saint to save five serial killers? Absent this information I'd opt to save one person, but would be doing so with the awareness that I might be making a very bad decision for which I'll have to take responsibility.

In this case, the trolley is in a whole other country. Unilaterally attacking it (while negotiations were ongoing) is regarded by most experts as a blatant violation of international law and that's the primary reason nominally allied countries are refusing to assist.

Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t need to hear deep arguments to be convinced that it’s not ok to kill my children/bomb their school.

Can you answer the question though? It's not a trick question, I want to see where you're coming from. And it's not about whether it's "okay".

I didn’t answer it because you’re framing it as the end-all be-all of this discussion when it’s bordering on a strawman argument.

Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>At the US

So Iran kills untold innocent children and innocents but because they havent yet launched an attack on american soil(they absolutely could) its immoral to stop them from killing more children and innocents? Doesnt make sense to me. Thats before we even get to the major economic damage their terrorist network has caused. The US morally must just sit back while Iran funds and arms the group that routinely shuts down gl…

I didn’t say literally anything like that. What?

Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#300
post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being comfortable with China playing America's role.

For a change, yes

China will be worse. Either Europe steps up or we just try living life without a hegemon.
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