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Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

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Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#111

Post by kubb »

dmitrygr wrote: post #102
kubb wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody claimed Europe was worse than China, only that if you wouldn't visit China for this reason then you shouldn't visit Europe (or the US) for the same reason. That would be nonsensical. If you have anti-Xi propaganda on your phone (which could be the reasons you mention), you have nothing to fear in Europe or in the US and a lot to fear in China. The US is actually worse than both China and Europe because it's…

Indeed anti-Xi posts are unsafe in China, and safe in UK. Equally , anti-UK posts are safe in China and not so in the UK... (eg https://www.congress.gov/119/meeting/house/118565/documents/... ). The naïveté in the claim that these are significantly different reminded me of an old joke from the USSR: American: In America, we have freedom of speech. USSRian: What's that? American: I can stand in front of the White Hous…

I'm sorry, but you're not coherent.

You're saying anti-uk posts, you're linking some heavily editorialized article from a highly ideological media outlet about an arrest "allegedly over criticising anti-trans activists". So not anti-UK posts.

The arrest doesn't seem to have lead to any conviction. So not years of jail and reeducation camps like you get in China for dissent.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. You put this things together and you claim they're the same. They're not even close. This makes you seem funny, unserious.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#112

Post by anonymousiam »

jonex wrote: post #21

Feature request: Make it default behavior on phones that you can have multiple passwords, connected to different profiles. With no way to determine how many profiles a phone have. I'm sure there's some people here working on mobile operating systems, might be worth considering?

Another feature request:

Allow the device user to create a different (duress) password, which when entered, will immediately wipe the phone without any secondary warnings. The user could then provide that password to the people who seized their device, and be in compliance with all laws, while maintaining information security.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#113

Post by [deleted] »

danlitt wrote: post #66
beambot wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying it's still at the discretion of a single magistrate? I'm sure China could find some judges to rule in the name of national security if it would give everyone warm fuzzies. Judicial checks and balances only function when they're independent of the executive and parliament

Not addressing your main point, magistrates and judges are not the same thing. It would be much worse if it were at the discretion of a magistrate.

[deleted]

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#114

Post by eqvinox »

dmitrygr wrote: post #100
eqvinox wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the US, not disclosing a password is explicitly protected (5th amndmnt), That's great but of exactly zero help if you're trying to travel to the US and CBP (or ICE) are staring you down. Even if they don't gulag you, they can always just reject entry for any non-citizen (and these days even some citizens it seems.)

Any country can reject non-citizen entry, for any reason or no reason at all. In fact, part of a definition of a country is ability to practice control over its territory and who is and is not there. This necessarily includes border controls, which any country can decide to make as onerous as they please. No non-citizen of a country has any right to be present in it, except as permitted by its government, so any coun…

> Any country can reject non-citizen entry, for any reason or no reason at all. […] This necessarily includes border controls, which any country can decide to make as onerous as they please.

Or, a country could set rules that specify what they will and won't do as part of their entry controls. Just because it's a kind of an "absolute" power doesn't mean you can't still self-impose rules. The benefit being attracting more leisure and business travellers.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#116

Post by mytailorisrich »

anonymousiam wrote: post #108

I wonder what would happen if HK tried to force somebody to unlock their business phone. It's typically a violation of corporate policy to allow a third party to access the encrypted, confidential information on corporate mobile devices. The poor device user would be faced with a choice of losing their job and being held criminally liable for breaching their company's systems, or going to jail in Hong Kong.

Police in HK will not ask you to unlock your business phone, or personal phone.

They are pro-business and want to remain an attractive international business hub so they are nice to foreign visitors. Likewise China (mainland) is nice to Western visitors and will not create trouble to you. If you visit the mainland these days (visa free if coming from Europe!) they also make efforts so that you are not impacted by the Great Firewall.

The way it works on the mainland and HK is that you must have shown by your actions that you are a "troublemaker" and got onto their radar. Then you are in trouble.

China is keen to attract Western visitors for tourism, business, and to stay if you're top talent (visa-free travel, new work visa for STEM talent) so they will try ot project a positive image.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#117

Post by dmitrygr »

eqvinox wrote: post #114
dmitrygr wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any country can reject non-citizen entry, for any reason or no reason at all. In fact, part of a definition of a country is ability to practice control over its territory and who is and is not there. This necessarily includes border controls, which any country can decide to make as onerous as they please. No non-citizen of a country has any right to be present in it, except as permitted by its government, so any coun…

> Any country can reject non-citizen entry, for any reason or no reason at all. […] This necessarily includes border controls, which any country can decide to make as onerous as they please. Or, a country could set rules that specify what they will and won't do as part of their entry controls. Just because it's a kind of an "absolute" power doesn't mean you can't still self-impose rules. The benefit being attracting…

Which i acknowledged with "This may not be a good idea,"

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#118

Post by wat10000 »

fn-mote wrote: post #104
wat10000 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't approve of CBP's approach here, but being denied entry to the country isn't punishment, even if it might feel like it at the time. And that only applies to non-citizens, where entry is fairly reasonably at the government's discretion. Citizens must be admitted regardless. Rules at the border tend to be pretty restrictive almost everywhere. You can literally get in trouble for having a sandwich in your bag. I'…

Do you ever travel outside your own country? Do you think you should retain some basic privacy rights while you do that? It’s not even good for business. Business laptops and phones have trade secrets to conduct regular company activities. Normalizing the surveillance dystopia we live in ON HN is beyond my understanding.

I travel a fair amount. I understand that my rights at a border are just about none, especially my right to enter the country, aside from the country where I have citizenship. I know that pretty much anywhere I travel, they can search my belongings, search me, and send me home for almost any reason they wish.

As I said, I don't agree with it, but it's normal and has been for longer than anyone here has been alive.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#119

Post by dmitrygr »

kubb wrote: post #111
dmitrygr wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed anti-Xi posts are unsafe in China, and safe in UK. Equally , anti-UK posts are safe in China and not so in the UK... (eg https://www.congress.gov/119/meeting/house/118565/documents/... ). The naïveté in the claim that these are significantly different reminded me of an old joke from the USSR: American: In America, we have freedom of speech. USSRian: What's that? American: I can stand in front of the White Hous…

I'm sorry, but you're not coherent. You're saying anti-uk posts, you're linking some heavily editorialized article from a highly ideological media outlet about an arrest "allegedly over criticising anti-trans activists". So not anti-UK posts. The arrest doesn't seem to have lead to any conviction. So not years of jail and reeducation camps like you get in China for dissent. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You…

arrest == arrest

You are most welcome to google "UK arrest for criticizing" and find articles you consider less biased. There are so many to choose from

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