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Author of Red Mars calls 'bullshit' on emigrating to the planet

newscientist.com

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Re: Author of Red Mars calls 'bullshit' on emigrating to the planet

#61

Post by deciduously »

wongarsu wrote: post #28
HPsquared wrote: post #5

It's always going to be easier to live underground or under the sea, and you don't see anyone doing that.

"To get to our habitat, you take a commercial flight to Bali, then a two-hour trip by boat" just does not have the same ring as "it's a six month trip in a space ship, but in a couple decades it might be as fast as 30 days". Being far away from everything is a major part of the appeal If it's possible to call me back to the SF office for a client meeting the day after tomorrow I'm not going

Won't somebody think of the disgruntled misanthropes?

Re: Author of Red Mars calls 'bullshit' on emigrating to the planet

#62

Post by inaros »

b112 wrote: post #41
inaros wrote: post #27

Folks...The US is effectively bankrupt with a 40 Trillion dollars debt in case you did not notice. The US Treasury is just a few minutes away from an economic event, that will force the US government to spend more than 70% to 80% of tax revenues on servicing said debt. There is no scientific or economic case to even go to Mars, much less colonize it. And with the current advances in robotics and automation there is n…

There is no scientific or economic case to even go to Mars Nonsense. Just going to Mars with humans creates economic activity, and the R&D to do so, adds to scientific knowledge. If you want to argue against going into further debt to do so, well, that's a different argument. One I agree with.

>> Nonsense. Just going to Mars with humans creates economic activity, and the R&D to do so.

Ok layout here your scientific or economic case...please. Because so far, the only trickle economic effects, where geriatric billionaires creating sub 100 km space rides to impress their Silicone Sally girlfriends...

Re: Author of Red Mars calls 'bullshit' on emigrating to the planet

#63

Post by flenserboy »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #43
flenserboy wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but this is the economic case for it — if things are as dire as you paint them, this is the last chance to get a toehold off-world for at least 3-4 generations, if ever.

Would that toe-hold actually survive without constant resupply vessels? There's cheaper ways to doom a dozen people to a slow, inevitable death.

not taking the chance is cowardly & nihilistic, & everyone who went up would know the score when they signed up. better to give it as much of a chance as possible than to give up & just watch the world degrade & rot around us.

Re: Author of Red Mars calls 'bullshit' on emigrating to the planet

#64

Post by triceratops »

moron4hire wrote: post #51
triceratops wrote: post #23

Between the realism about terraforming Mars and the strong likelihood that faster-than-light travel may never happen, is anyone else feeling a bit melancholic? It feels like a possible future has been taken away from us.

IDK, that feels like being melancholic about not having unicrons and fairies in the world. It wasn't something that someone took from you. It was never going to happen. But, I think in relation to what you're talking about, I'm more "melancholic" about the concept that something like Star Fleet will never exist. Not that I want to fly around between planets in garishly colored uniforms, but the broader vision of the…

> It wasn't something that someone took from you. It was never going to happen

Arguably that's how people 300 years ago felt as science proved unicorns and fairies don't exist.

Re: Author of Red Mars calls 'bullshit' on emigrating to the planet

#65

Post by glenstein »

b112 wrote: post #41
inaros wrote: post #27

Folks...The US is effectively bankrupt with a 40 Trillion dollars debt in case you did not notice. The US Treasury is just a few minutes away from an economic event, that will force the US government to spend more than 70% to 80% of tax revenues on servicing said debt. There is no scientific or economic case to even go to Mars, much less colonize it. And with the current advances in robotics and automation there is n…

There is no scientific or economic case to even go to Mars Nonsense. Just going to Mars with humans creates economic activity, and the R&D to do so, adds to scientific knowledge. If you want to argue against going into further debt to do so, well, that's a different argument. One I agree with.

Agreed. At a bare minimum it's a hedge against terrestrial existential risks. And if Mars itself sucks, then, well, rotating space stations with simulated G, same principle.

One terrible thing wrought by billionaire Mars fantasies is a backlash that I think has become too sweeping. It's wrongheaded for a million reasons, but it's nevertheless true that hedging against terrestrial existential risks is something we should have an interest in.

Re: Author of Red Mars calls 'bullshit' on emigrating to the planet

#66

Post by Tadpole9181 »

flenserboy wrote: post #38
inaros wrote: post #27

Folks...The US is effectively bankrupt with a 40 Trillion dollars debt in case you did not notice. The US Treasury is just a few minutes away from an economic event, that will force the US government to spend more than 70% to 80% of tax revenues on servicing said debt. There is no scientific or economic case to even go to Mars, much less colonize it. And with the current advances in robotics and automation there is n…

but this is the economic case for it — if things are as dire as you paint them, this is the last chance to get a toehold off-world for at least 3-4 generations, if ever.

You know those people would rely on endless, constant resupply missions for the rest of their lives with no hope of ever being returned home, right?

How important is this to you? Are you willing to personally act as executioner and press the button than sends these people to their deaths, knowing we could just stop being able to send food and replacement equipment in a few years?

We can't even keep our society stable and our people taken care and our home world clean. You think we are even close to terraforming or creating a society on Mars? Other than as some token of nerd approval, what does this extremely expensive and dangerous mission accomplish?

Re: Author of Red Mars calls 'bullshit' on emigrating to the planet

#68

Post by triceratops »

jubilanti wrote: post #58
triceratops wrote: post #23

Between the realism about terraforming Mars and the strong likelihood that faster-than-light travel may never happen, is anyone else feeling a bit melancholic? It feels like a possible future has been taken away from us.

An improbable future was sold to you as probable. Why attack the people calling BS for taking away a BS fantasy? If you actually admire science and not science fiction, you should be glad when you are confronted with overwhelming reasons why your priors are wrong. Why is improving life on earth for the billions here in poverty not a worthwhile fantasy? Why does that noble goal not sustain you in the way space operas…

I didn't attack anyone. You might want to re-read what I wrote.

I can be glad to have a truth but also dislike that truth.

Re: Author of Red Mars calls 'bullshit' on emigrating to the planet

#69

Post by jubilanti »

doublerabbit wrote: post #60
triceratops wrote: post #23

Between the realism about terraforming Mars and the strong likelihood that faster-than-light travel may never happen, is anyone else feeling a bit melancholic? It feels like a possible future has been taken away from us.

To me the future was taken away from us in 1997. That's when my teenage life turned from fun to depressing. Web 2.0 turned stinking because of Facebook and everything cool turned unified. Apple and Google are both wet teabags that ultimately own the walled gardens we can't escape. Want to go somewhere else? Take the Cloudflare tunnel. Whatever the Y2K bug was suppose to be never happened and we've been stuck in the g…

You just grew up. Every generation seems to take everything up to maturity as natural and good, then everything after is the decline of civilization.

Re: Author of Red Mars calls 'bullshit' on emigrating to the planet

#70

Post by jubilanti »

triceratops wrote: post #57
elil17 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are a lot of good futures that involve things being better on Earth

Good futures, sure. But not as cool . No Tannhauser Gate, no Kessel Run.

You know what's cool? Lifting a billion people out of poverty on earth. If you don't think so and still are more motivated by space opera fantasies, there is something wrong with your morals.
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