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Author of Red Mars calls 'bullshit' on emigrating to the planet

newscientist.com

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Re: Author of Red Mars calls 'bullshit' on emigrating to the planet

#41

Post by b112 »

inaros wrote: post #27

Folks...The US is effectively bankrupt with a 40 Trillion dollars debt in case you did not notice. The US Treasury is just a few minutes away from an economic event, that will force the US government to spend more than 70% to 80% of tax revenues on servicing said debt. There is no scientific or economic case to even go to Mars, much less colonize it. And with the current advances in robotics and automation there is n…

There is no scientific or economic case to even go to Mars

Nonsense. Just going to Mars with humans creates economic activity, and the R&D to do so, adds to scientific knowledge.

If you want to argue against going into further debt to do so, well, that's a different argument. One I agree with.

Re: Author of Red Mars calls 'bullshit' on emigrating to the planet

#42

Post by bananzamba »

"Also, we’ve learned more about the bad effects of lighter-than-Earthly gravity on human bodies,"

How can he confidently use that argument when we don't have any data between 0g and 1g, other than 12 Apollo astronauts, that spend less than 3 days on the moon?

It might very well be that the 0.38g on Mars are sufficient to make many problems go away. The two simple facts of your blood being pulled downward and moving your body around taking effort could already fix a lot of the medical issues astronauts face in 0g.

Re: Author of Red Mars calls 'bullshit' on emigrating to the planet

#43

Post by pavel_lishin »

flenserboy wrote: post #38
inaros wrote: post #27

Folks...The US is effectively bankrupt with a 40 Trillion dollars debt in case you did not notice. The US Treasury is just a few minutes away from an economic event, that will force the US government to spend more than 70% to 80% of tax revenues on servicing said debt. There is no scientific or economic case to even go to Mars, much less colonize it. And with the current advances in robotics and automation there is n…

but this is the economic case for it — if things are as dire as you paint them, this is the last chance to get a toehold off-world for at least 3-4 generations, if ever.

Would that toe-hold actually survive without constant resupply vessels?

There's cheaper ways to doom a dozen people to a slow, inevitable death.

Re: Author of Red Mars calls 'bullshit' on emigrating to the planet

#44

Post by celticninja »

KaiserPro wrote: post #24
dsr_ wrote: post #2

Mars is only a few billion dollars of investment away from being quite habitable, and Mr. Musk should make plans to retire there along with his friends and senior execs within the year.

Perhaps we can organise a kickstarter?

I can provide the kicks

Re: Author of Red Mars calls 'bullshit' on emigrating to the planet

#45

Post by keepamovin »

Humans must expand through the solar system and beyond. Mars is an okay goal, but the moon is a better bet for living quarters for now.

Earth is a jewel, but we have to expand and explore. It's our destiny.

Ultimately you need to live underground on the Mars to avoid radiation.

Re: Author of Red Mars calls 'bullshit' on emigrating to the planet

#46

Post by inaros »

stronglikedan wrote: post #25
TwoNineA wrote: post #3

I think Neil DeGrasse Tyson said it best (paraphrasing): It takes less money and effort to fix Earth than to terraform Mars.

Classic Neil, always something smart-sounding to say about the wrong thing. It's more about discovery and adventure than fleeing a dying planet. To quote someone that I'm sure is Neil's intellectual superior, "¿Por qué no los dos?"

I know deGrasse is apparently in private, a bit of a ahole, but in this case he is completely correct: https://youtu.be/t0Yqy_-PCfY

https://youtu.be/IdjtK54Lprw?t=266

Re: Author of Red Mars calls 'bullshit' on emigrating to the planet

#47

Post by bigyabai »

stronglikedan wrote: post #25
TwoNineA wrote: post #3

I think Neil DeGrasse Tyson said it best (paraphrasing): It takes less money and effort to fix Earth than to terraform Mars.

Classic Neil, always something smart-sounding to say about the wrong thing. It's more about discovery and adventure than fleeing a dying planet. To quote someone that I'm sure is Neil's intellectual superior, "¿Por qué no los dos?"

> "¿Por qué no los dos?"

Because right now we're not investing in fixing Earth but seriously investing in an infeasible Mars mission.

Re: Author of Red Mars calls 'bullshit' on emigrating to the planet

#48

Post by jubilanti »

stronglikedan wrote: post #25
TwoNineA wrote: post #3

I think Neil DeGrasse Tyson said it best (paraphrasing): It takes less money and effort to fix Earth than to terraform Mars.

Classic Neil, always something smart-sounding to say about the wrong thing. It's more about discovery and adventure than fleeing a dying planet. To quote someone that I'm sure is Neil's intellectual superior, "¿Por qué no los dos?"

Classic sarcastic ironically detached drive-by HN comment. Where is the money going to come from to do both? Every dollar spent on discovery and adventure could be invested in Earth based projects.

Re: Author of Red Mars calls 'bullshit' on emigrating to the planet

#49

Post by glenstein »

Currently reading Blue Mars, the third and final book in the trilogy. It's amazingly fascinating but also exhausting. I say with full seriousness it may be best to read this with a very specific high resolution full color map of Mars on your wall somewhere.

If anything KSR is not giving himself as much credit as he deserves, as personal AIs show up in ways that are remarkably salient and similar to what we're currently seeing. And he talks about advances in genetics that parallel what we're figuring out with CRISPR at least to some degrees. The biggest "error" is the preoccupation with a Paul Ehrlich-style population boom, but by the same token it reveals that the book is a window into the time it was made.

If any ambitious and aspiring science novelists are reading this, I would love for someone to be the Kim Stanley Robinson of Venus and tell the story of colonization there, aspiring to the same bar of technical specificity that KSR had for Red Mars.

Re: Author of Red Mars calls 'bullshit' on emigrating to the planet

#50

Post by hagbard_c »

nutjob2 wrote: post #29

How about we just commit to fucking up one planet at a time? Arguably humanity is a dangerous invasive species that destroys any environment it inhabits. Until we do better we should treat other planets more like a park than fresh real estate.

If this is how you think about your own species I'd hate to learn what you think about other species. Nihilism is really a horrible substitute for religion, all doom and gloom and no salvation in sight.
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