The 'paperwork flood': How I drowned a bureaucrat before dinner • Hacker News Board

Re: The 'paperwork flood': How I drowned a bureaucrat before dinner

#121

Post by voidUpdate » Fri, Mar 27, 2026, 2:39 PM UTC

iso1631 wrote: post #108

voidUpdate wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "She said it with a challenge in her tone. She knew who she was talking to. She was talking to a blind man living below the poverty line. She assumed that "fax it" was an impossible hurdle. She assumed I would have to find a ride to a library, pay twenty cents a page, and struggle with a physical machine I couldn't read. She was counting on the friction of the physical world to make me give up."

This experiment feels related https://theinquisitivejournal.com/2023/04/07/the-power-of-pe... Presumably the blog writer has never worked in a corporate hierarchy, let alone at the lowest of the low of being in a call centre. They sound like a horrible person whose interactions with the outside world being driven from being terminally online (the choice of Karen was telling) > He writes fiction where Disabled heroes…

Perhaps Karen was made of marshmallow and worked at the cookie factory. We don't know. All we know is that the author says she was uncaring and unapologetic while asking a blind person with cerebral palsy to either fax or mail documents to them instead of sending them in the format they were already in

Re: The 'paperwork flood': How I drowned a bureaucrat before dinner

#122

Post by foxglacier » Fri, Mar 27, 2026, 2:40 PM UTC

afro88 wrote: post #101

cucumber3732842 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"cut those cops strangling that guy over bootleg smokes some slack, they have a tough job" These sorts of don't hate the cogs hate the machine takes are worthless because they create an instant exploit where the machine can be as bad as it wants as long as it hides behind the cogs.

What good does hating the cogs do though? Make noise to the people who can change the machine.

It gives you satisfaction. That's the whole value and it can be worth a lot to not hold bitterness long after the problem has passed. I agree with your parent. The cogs are part of the machine, they don't deserve any sympathy just because they chose to do bad things for money any more than a robber deserves sympathy because he's poor.

Re: The 'paperwork flood': How I drowned a bureaucrat before dinner

#123

Post by rogerrogerr » Fri, Mar 27, 2026, 2:40 PM UTC

Permit wrote: post #98

cucumber3732842 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"cut those cops strangling that guy over bootleg smokes some slack, they have a tough job" These sorts of don't hate the cogs hate the machine takes are worthless because they create an instant exploit where the machine can be as bad as it wants as long as it hides behind the cogs.

> because they create an instant exploit where the machine can be as bad as it wants as long as it hides behind the cogs. The exploit is already there whether or not you blame the cogs. Did blaming the cogs in this instance solve anything? Are disability benefits reformed in any way?

Cogs receiving abuse (which in this case is a scary word for "feedback from the public who is paying you and is unhappy with your process") _do_ cause the system to change. It's really not that much different from writing angry letters to Congressmen:

One letter "doesn't do anything", but a surprisingly small number of letters does. And the one Congressmen "can't do anything", but usually a small number of Congressmen can sway real change. HN often advocates writing angry letters to Congress because it understands this dynamic.

You will never be allowed to talk to the people who made the fax policy; they hired people like Karen specifically to make sure that doesn't happen. The person who can talk to management is... Karen.

These systems usually settle into a steady state where the interface with the public receives an acceptable amount of abuse. I guarantee that if a few people a month did what OP claims to have done, they'd figure out how to take docs over email pretty quickly.

Re: The 'paperwork flood': How I drowned a bureaucrat before dinner

#124

Post by bmicraft » Fri, Mar 27, 2026, 2:41 PM UTC

voidUpdate wrote: post #75

recursivedoubts wrote: post #33

Karen woke up this morning in her run down, rented flat. She briefly looks at the collections letter that showed up yesterday due to an unaffordable repair she had to pay for on her credit card. Another letter from her ex-partner's lawyer. As she rushes out the door (she spilled coffee on her one nice sweater, her favorite) her mom flashes through her mind... "What about mum?". She arrives at the office. It is an opp…

> "She said it with a challenge in her tone. She knew who she was talking to. She was talking to a blind man living below the poverty line. She assumed that "fax it" was an impossible hurdle. She assumed I would have to find a ride to a library, pay twenty cents a page, and struggle with a physical machine I couldn't read. She was counting on the friction of the physical world to make me give up."

The author may feel like this is true, but she probably probably doesn't care for the Kafkaesque nature of the system and doesn't stand to profit from their misery either.

Re: The 'paperwork flood': How I drowned a bureaucrat before dinner

#125

Post by 63stack » Fri, Mar 27, 2026, 2:42 PM UTC

afro88 wrote: post #101

cucumber3732842 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"cut those cops strangling that guy over bootleg smokes some slack, they have a tough job" These sorts of don't hate the cogs hate the machine takes are worthless because they create an instant exploit where the machine can be as bad as it wants as long as it hides behind the cogs.

What good does hating the cogs do though? Make noise to the people who can change the machine.

Not that I'm entirely onboard with it, but often you don't have a channel to communicate with "the people who can change the machine", only the cogs in the machine.

Re: The 'paperwork flood': How I drowned a bureaucrat before dinner

#126

Post by raincole » Fri, Mar 27, 2026, 2:42 PM UTC

> It is a letter that arrives every few years from the government, asking a question that is medically absurd and philosophically insulting: "Are you still disabled?"

It... doesn't sound like an absurd practice at all. There are curable disabilities. And what's curable changes along with the advance of technology. It sounds about right to review the situation every a few years.

Re: The 'paperwork flood': How I drowned a bureaucrat before dinner

#127

Post by KronisLV » Fri, Mar 27, 2026, 2:42 PM UTC

catapart wrote: post #87

john_strinlai wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then laughed at her anguish. anguish? as in, "excruciating pain" or "agonizing torment"? i dont understand where the "anguish" comes from. he didnt yell at her, berate her, hit her, cause her to be fired, submit a malicious complaint, or anything of the sort. he sent her a long fax. oh no! if i was in her position, i would shrug and hand my boss the 500 pieces of paper. if you are just a cog in the machine, it is n…

exactly this. I didn't put you in a bad job; you - and to a large extent, your society - did. you are the face of the machine that I am trying to deal with. if you don't want to be that face, go be the face of some other machine. but if you pick up a phone to talk to a client or customer, you are a representation of an organization, and you will be treated as such. fix you mind to understand that people are trying to…

> if you don't want to be that face, go be the face of some other machine

How dare someone take a job that isn’t very nice just to afford a living!

That said, everyone kind of sucks in the situation.

The Karen should have been nicer and shown more compassion instead of hitting the OP with that line about security (and maybe the whole approach should have been considered a bit more, since their requirements make it harder for disabled people to receive the support they need).

And OP perhaps maybe should have filed a complaint or something, maybe contact a news org if they’re feeling wronged, instead of being petty like that. What if someone else doesn’t receive their services in a timely manner over that bullshit? It felt more like feeling triumphant over inconveniencing someone and getting back at them in a sense.

I can’t say I don’t find that sort of thing relatable, but yeah it probably could have been handled better by everyone. I guess what I’m saying is that they shouldn’t have been subjected to the circumstance that lead to them being a jerk, but the choice to be one is on them.

Re: The 'paperwork flood': How I drowned a bureaucrat before dinner

#128

Post by stuaxo » Fri, Mar 27, 2026, 2:43 PM UTC

recursivedoubts wrote: post #33

Karen woke up this morning in her run down, rented flat. She briefly looks at the collections letter that showed up yesterday due to an unaffordable repair she had to pay for on her credit card. Another letter from her ex-partner's lawyer. As she rushes out the door (she spilled coffee on her one nice sweater, her favorite) her mom flashes through her mind... "What about mum?". She arrives at the office. It is an opp…

It's her inconvenience vs money he relies on to live.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease and this is the sort of thing that might make Karen suggest to her boss that they accept PDF files.

Re: The 'paperwork flood': How I drowned a bureaucrat before dinner

#129

Post by tehwebguy » Fri, Mar 27, 2026, 2:44 PM UTC

cucumber3732842 wrote: post #66

recursivedoubts wrote: post #33

Karen woke up this morning in her run down, rented flat. She briefly looks at the collections letter that showed up yesterday due to an unaffordable repair she had to pay for on her credit card. Another letter from her ex-partner's lawyer. As she rushes out the door (she spilled coffee on her one nice sweater, her favorite) her mom flashes through her mind... "What about mum?". She arrives at the office. It is an opp…

"cut those cops strangling that guy over bootleg smokes some slack, they have a tough job" These sorts of don't hate the cogs hate the machine takes are worthless because they create an instant exploit where the machine can be as bad as it wants as long as it hides behind the cogs.

Yeah and wayyy more importantly cops don't get fired for not escalating and killing a guy!

Re: The 'paperwork flood': How I drowned a bureaucrat before dinner

#130

Post by apexalpha » Fri, Mar 27, 2026, 2:45 PM UTC

The problem in the UK, and many other countries, is that they refuse to split Disabilities in "objectively measurable disabilities" and "not objectively measurable disabilities."

Obviously, you can just objectively measure if someone is fully blind. Sure you can pretend, but that's very hard.

On the other hand there's disabilities like anxiety, where the only option is to ask the patient questions that the patient may or may not have already looked up online.

By not splitting the groups you are left with only two very bad options:

A) Everyone gets a regime with a lot checks and rechecks to keep the system affordable and scoped to people who need it.

B) You give everyone a lax, trusty regime that people will immediately start abusing by claiming they have anxiety or so.