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Judge blocks Pentagon effort to 'punish' Anthropic with supply chain risk label

cnn.com

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Re: Judge blocks Pentagon effort to 'punish' Anthropic with supply chain risk label

#211

Post by tolerance »

zmmmmm wrote: post #208
nickysielicki wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government cannot conduct massive domestic surveillance in any case, that’s illegal. Other vendors are mature and serious enough to understand that the government is subject to American law and must operate under American law. They’re mature and serious enough to understand that it is the exclusive right of the judicial branch to make determinations around whether the law has been violated or not. They’re mature…

I don't think a lot of what you are citing is true or valid - but for the sake of argument, everything valid that you are expressing can be and should be put into terms that don't relate specifically to Anthropic. The government just needs to state what its requirements are and then treat all parties equally. Anything else is crony capitalism.

> Anything else is crony capitalism.

Are you new here?!

Re: Judge blocks Pentagon effort to 'punish' Anthropic with supply chain risk label

#212

Post by zmmmmm »

nickysielicki wrote: post #210
zmmmmm wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think a lot of what you are citing is true or valid - but for the sake of argument, everything valid that you are expressing can be and should be put into terms that don't relate specifically to Anthropic. The government just needs to state what its requirements are and then treat all parties equally. Anything else is crony capitalism.

The government has stated what its requirements are: “all lawful use”. Anthropic is uniquely unwilling to agree to that.

So that should have been the end of it - why didn't the government just do that and leave it there? The gap between the accessible means for them to achieve the requirement they needed and the action they actually took amounts to a harm to Anthropic for which they may have the right to pursue compensation.

Re: Judge blocks Pentagon effort to 'punish' Anthropic with supply chain risk label

#213

Post by nickysielicki »

etchalon wrote: post #207
nickysielicki wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The court hasn’t found anything. A preliminary injunction is a finding of likelihood of success on the merits, not a ruling on the merits. The designation is still in place and will remain in place until the appellate courts weigh in. On the substance: nothing in 3252 limits ‘adversary’ to foreign actors. Congress used ‘foreign adversary’ in other statutes when it meant foreign adversary. It didn’t here. That’s a pro…

... you're arguing they weren't denied due process because they could always sue to demand due process?

Post-deprivation process is still process.

Re: Judge blocks Pentagon effort to 'punish' Anthropic with supply chain risk label

#214

Post by nickysielicki »

zmmmmm wrote: post #212
nickysielicki wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government has stated what its requirements are: “all lawful use”. Anthropic is uniquely unwilling to agree to that.

So that should have been the end of it - why didn't the government just do that and leave it there? The gap between the accessible means for them to achieve the requirement they needed and the action they actually took amounts to a harm to Anthropic for which they may have the right to pursue compensation.

Again, you’re ignoring the entire background of this dispute: Palantir. Once DoD has established that Anthropic is an unreliable partner and is liable to act adversarially, they needs a legal mechanism to prevent Palantir (and all companies like Palantir) from taking a dependency on Anthropic. This is what that looks like.

Ceasing to contract with them directly doesn’t change the fact that Anthropic wishes to leverage itself to influence the government. That doesn’t go away. The problem is not with closing all direct contracts between the Pentagon and Anthropic, those don’t matter, it’s with closing all their channels of influence into DoD as a subcontractor.

Similarly to how DoD refusing to buy from Huawei doesn’t protect DoD from their prime contractors buying Huawei gear, they need a supply chain risk designation to ensure they are protected.

Re: Judge blocks Pentagon effort to 'punish' Anthropic with supply chain risk label

#215

Post by zmmmmm »

nickysielicki wrote: post #214
zmmmmm wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that should have been the end of it - why didn't the government just do that and leave it there? The gap between the accessible means for them to achieve the requirement they needed and the action they actually took amounts to a harm to Anthropic for which they may have the right to pursue compensation.

Again, you’re ignoring the entire background of this dispute: Palantir. Once DoD has established that Anthropic is an unreliable partner and is liable to act adversarially, they needs a legal mechanism to prevent Palantir (and all companies like Palantir) from taking a dependency on Anthropic. This is what that looks like. Ceasing to contract with them directly doesn’t change the fact that Anthropic wishes to leverag…

well you've zeroed on the part that I just don't accept at all here:

> is liable to act adversarially

...

> wishes to leverage itself to influence the government

This goes way beyond the above requirement of "all legal purposes", and I haven't seen anything that remotely supports these in the public evidence. In fact there's a lot of evidence to support the opposite view.

Re: Judge blocks Pentagon effort to 'punish' Anthropic with supply chain risk label

#216

Post by Ylpertnodi »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #185
paulv wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that a majority voted for A majority of people who voted . Not a majority of eligible voters and certainly not a majority.

No one cares about people who don't bother to vote. If you can't manage even that you don't deserve an opinion. blah blah some exceptional circumstances, etc you all know what I mean.

> No one cares about people who don't bother to vote. If you can't manage even that you don't deserve an opinion.

It's not so much that people 'don't bother to vote',, it's more that 'we' aren't prepared to vote for crooks that will campaign on one or two issues, but actually have several agendas running. Etc, etc.

The opinion I may not 'deserve', is that I'm not playing your/ this game.

No, I don't have a better solution (apart from many, many, referendums), but don't forget that 'just' my opinions may have changed somebody's pov regarding their vote, as i don't have a horse in the race, and regard the vast majority of politicians in very low regard.

Re: Judge blocks Pentagon effort to 'punish' Anthropic with supply chain risk label

#217

Post by trymas »

yalogin wrote: post #197

Glad to see the judicial system works sometimes atleast. Less cynically now, the president has admired Xi many many times openly, and it’s clear he prefers an administrative style similar to China. That is what he is turning the country into. Everybody goes and bends the knee like the tech ceos did and he controls every aspect of the administration with an iron fist, just like China.

IMHO current USA government is somewhat inverse to China.

US government now is a kakistocracy made out of sycophants to the biggest egomaniac this generation have ever seen. Who is only driven by personal wealth and attention.

Any billionaire capitalist psychopath openly promising to give cash and attention to orange musollini gets a free reign to do anything (they could be even not from USA) - it’s oligarchy.

China is not that. Xi and CCP are much more principled than emotional children in USA.

Re: Judge blocks Pentagon effort to 'punish' Anthropic with supply chain risk label

#218

Post by pnt12 »

mr_00ff00 wrote: post #93

Had this conversation with a friend, but I think as an America you can be very optimistic about the institutional strength of democracy in the country. People are very pessimistic recently, but if anything, we are seeing that our system works well. A person got into power that a majority voted for, but when he oversteps, the courts and other institutions (even judges and fed reserve chairs he picked!) seem to hold hi…

I'm not an American but unfortunately I don't share the optimism. Your president shows time and time again he does what he wants, whether it's immoral or illegal or not within his power to do. And a majority turn a blind eye, especially his party. Some examples (correct me if I'm wrong): starting 2 wars; very questionable anti deportation methods by ICE; a DOGE that was ruthless and dumb; renaming a branch (ministry of war) in effect while in theory not having such power; pardoning crypto currencies pundits who have business with him; ties to pump and dump scams. Not to mention ties to Eppstein.

My prediction: in a vendetta, because they chose to contradict him publicly, and his cronies will put high pressure to have anthropic out of everything touching the government, and any rebel will be fired for an unrelated cause. The high profile CEOs (those we were attending his inauguration) will avoid anthropic, lest they find their selves out of some profitable contract or in some unrelated tribunal issue. Anyone in his party will surely avoid them too.

Re: Judge blocks Pentagon effort to 'punish' Anthropic with supply chain risk label

#219

Post by lrvick »

I mean they -are- a supply chain risk, but also, so is every security negligent proprietary software firm the public and government relies on for no reason. Anthropic deserves to -share- this label with dozens of other companies.

What is insane is that the US government lacks the capability to insert GPUs into PCIe slots, and provide them with electricity and FOSS tools. This shit is just not that hard. Especially when you have an unlimited money printer.

A level of incompetence that causes the US government to even think they need to pay a private company to host LLMs for them is the biggest risk I see.

Re: Judge blocks Pentagon effort to 'punish' Anthropic with supply chain risk label

#220

Post by lrvick »

suid wrote: post #99
mrkstu wrote: post #83

The issue of course is that the Judge can't change the knowledge that the head of the executive doesn't want people down the chain using this product, so they won't. Anthropic is a dead letter in government circles until the next Presidential election.

That may be, but the government doesn't need to declare Anthropic as a "supply chain risk" in order to just not do business with it. A simple clause in all RFPs is all that is needed. The problem with this declaration by the government is that now any company doing any business with the US government would be effectively forbidden from using Anthropic ANYWHERE within their company, which is a huge deal, because the g…

Any company that feels the need to send data in plain text to third party LLM providers has absolutely no business having government contracts. OpenAI and Anthropic are both a complete joke when it comes to data security.

It is hard to believe how few companies seemingly lack even one person with the basic technical skills required to rack up a server or two or find a service that supports verifiable end to end encryption.

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