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Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

nytimes.com

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Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#511

Post by dpark »

ipaddr wrote: post #468
Ralfp wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is high because primarily a minority stress of being a transgender person in unaccepting environment: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266656032...

After reading the above I don't believe they concluded stress of living in a non-accepting world is the primary reason. 30% think about killing themselves and 4%+ try each year is shocking. I think whatever side of the debate you are on we can agree things aren't working out for too many people who go through this process. If this was a drug or vaccine or hair shampoo it would have been pulled off the market.

> people who go through this process

Through what process? This was a study about trans and nonbinary people, not specifically about people who have “transitioned”

I would imagine the rate of depression and similar disorders in trans people is extremely high. To be so unsatisfied with one’s own body that you consider (or go through) major treatment and surgery to change something so fundamental.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#512

Post by dmitrygr »

happymellon wrote: post #9

Has anyone measured trans athletes performance? I see this topic come up repeatedly in different guises, protect women from the evil trans-agenda. But I haven't seen where this is actually a problem. Do trans-athletes regularly out perform "born as" (not sure the best way to phrase it) athletes?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imane_Khelif

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#513

Post by michaelt »

callistocodes wrote: post #334

My two cents as a transfem athlete: The attention this topic receives is disproportionate considering how rare we are, especially close to the Olympics level. Most of us do sports for fun/friends and don’t care how they rank us, but would be sad to be banned. There might be more “biological advantage” nuance with people just starting their transition, but by this many years in it feels silly. I registered as a man fo…

Competitive sport is unusual in that the whole thing is, in a sense, a search for outliers.

Finding very rightmost person on the histogram of running speed or swimming ability or weightlifting strength. The very, very rare. The 7ft 6in guys. Then we put them on a podium, hand them a medal, and wrap them in a flag.

In most other fields, outliers average out. The new subdivision of houses gets framed at the speed of the average carpenter on the team, not the fastest. We don’t send the fastest carpenter to represent the county, then the state, then the country to find out if she’s really the world number 1.

In sport, though? Finding the people with the unnatural biological advantage is what it’s all about.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#514

Post by ordersofmag »

txrx0000 wrote: post #466
qingcharles wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the rare problems where there exists no good solution to the issue. Even without taking transfem athletes into consideration, there still remains a problem for women's sports in that sex (not gender) is not fully black and white, male and female, and some high-performing female athletes show signs of intersex, which has caused this entire hysteria about checking for penises. How do you ever come up wit…

The solution is to develop relative skill rating systems like Elo.

Not sure how this helps. Olympic events already have relative rating systems that ranks all the participant: pretty complicated and sport dependent systems that determine qualification for the games and competition amongst all the competitors at the games. The problem how to have separate competitions for different groups of participants when there isn't a universally shared agreement on who should be in which group.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#515

Post by space_fountain »

Aurornis wrote: post #387
delecti wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is absolutely possible, and it has been done in cisgender children with precocious puberty for decades. > Puberty blockers alter hormones dramatically during critical growth phases. Which is generally the goal. It is of course not possible to retroactively have allowed puberty to progress as though the blockers had never been taken, but it is possible to cease the blockers and allow it to resume, again, as is done…

> It is absolutely possible, and it has been done in cisgender children with precocious puberty for decades Precocious puberty is a condition in which puberty happens earlier than it's supposed to. The goal of puberty blockers in precocious puberty is to delay puberty until the correct age and physiological growth window. Puberty blocker in precocious puberty are also not used to induce hormonal profiles that are dif…

You're making scientific claims, but with the only evidence that I'm aware of contradicting the claim. The usual approach with puberty blockers is prescribing them around the onset of natural puberty and one way or another stopping them around the age of 16. While there are sadly some cases of people who started hormone therapies and later regretted it, I'm aware of no cases of long term health impacts that are attributed to delaying puberty until 16. If you do know of some reports please let me know.

I asked Claude to see if it could find anything and the only reports it could find was some long term bone density issues, but only in trans women and it seemed potentially related to estrogen dosing

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#516

Post by fourseventy »

callistocodes wrote: post #334

My two cents as a transfem athlete: The attention this topic receives is disproportionate considering how rare we are, especially close to the Olympics level. Most of us do sports for fun/friends and don’t care how they rank us, but would be sad to be banned. There might be more “biological advantage” nuance with people just starting their transition, but by this many years in it feels silly. I registered as a man fo…

[flagged]

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#517

Post by throw_a_grenade »

callistocodes wrote: post #334

My two cents as a transfem athlete: The attention this topic receives is disproportionate considering how rare we are, especially close to the Olympics level. Most of us do sports for fun/friends and don’t care how they rank us, but would be sad to be banned. There might be more “biological advantage” nuance with people just starting their transition, but by this many years in it feels silly. I registered as a man fo…

[flagged]

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#518

Post by ordersofmag »

lokar wrote: post #488
callistocodes wrote: post #334

My two cents as a transfem athlete: The attention this topic receives is disproportionate considering how rare we are, especially close to the Olympics level. Most of us do sports for fun/friends and don’t care how they rank us, but would be sad to be banned. There might be more “biological advantage” nuance with people just starting their transition, but by this many years in it feels silly. I registered as a man fo…

You can tell the IOC does not care about fairness in competition: they focus on this, instead of the rampant cheating (eg doping) which they do nothing about.

I'm pretty sure there are folks involved in doing drug testing for many sports so saying are doing nothing seems hyperbolic. Are there specific things you think the bodies in charge of drug testing should be doing but aren't? Genuinely curious.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#519

Post by 4gotunameagain »

Retric wrote: post #366
andsoitis wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At 12 you simply do not have sufficient capacity to make a good decision on the matter.

That subtilely implies it’s a decision to view oneself as a different gender from what was assigned at birth, but it’s not entirely clear it’s a choice in every case. Edge cases in biology get wild and sex assigned at birth can be a near arbitrary decision. Ex: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(genetics) Parents making major medical decisions has a huge precedent in a wide range of procedures with significant ri…

It is entirely clear that it can be the case, as proven by the existence of people "detransitioning".

It is also entirely clear that there have been parents (usually mothers) who wanted to have a trans child because it was cool.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#520

Post by jazzpush2 »

michaelt wrote: post #513
callistocodes wrote: post #334

My two cents as a transfem athlete: The attention this topic receives is disproportionate considering how rare we are, especially close to the Olympics level. Most of us do sports for fun/friends and don’t care how they rank us, but would be sad to be banned. There might be more “biological advantage” nuance with people just starting their transition, but by this many years in it feels silly. I registered as a man fo…

Competitive sport is unusual in that the whole thing is, in a sense, a search for outliers. Finding very rightmost person on the histogram of running speed or swimming ability or weightlifting strength. The very, very rare. The 7ft 6in guys. Then we put them on a podium, hand them a medal, and wrap them in a flag. In most other fields, outliers average out. The new subdivision of houses gets framed at the speed of th…

Well, in your example, carpentry isn't about winning or being the best, it's about creating a house to sell (or flip, where you could actually frame a better argument about doing the worst possible job the fastest).
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