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We haven't seen the worst of what gambling and prediction markets will do

derekthompson.org

61–70 of 741 posts

Re: We haven't seen the worst of what gambling and prediction markets will do

#61

More doomer takes. The world survived two world wars and a cold war. This stuff is nothing. Engagement bait as usual.

You're joking, right? A hundred million people died in those wars.

“Mr. President, I’m not saying we wouldn’t get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than ten to twenty million killed, tops.”

Re: We haven't seen the worst of what gambling and prediction markets will do

#62
Americans may be shocked to hear that in the rest of the world gambling has been a thing for centuries.

We also have people under the age of 20 drinking alcohol.

I am not suggesting in any way that gambling is good - but it wasnt invented last week in america

Re: We haven't seen the worst of what gambling and prediction markets will do

#63

More doomer takes. The world survived two world wars and a cold war. This stuff is nothing. Engagement bait as usual.

the implied suggestion that we should not seek to remedy anything that is not the worst thing that has ever happened to the species seems more like bait than the article

Re: We haven't seen the worst of what gambling and prediction markets will do

#64
post #13

Assassinations markets are what's next. eg. someone will bet $1M that Elon Musk will be assassinated in 2026. But these don't themselves even have to be legal. Second order wagers will be placed on SpaceX and Tesla stock prices, bets that "a hundred billionaire will die in 2026", etc. A bet that Putin will be assassinated could be encoded in, "there will be regime change in Russia."

Someone would need to take the opposite side of that bet. And who would do that knowing someone might try to assassinate him in order to win that bet?

In this scenario, that would be the people paying for the assassination. The people who want it to happen bet that it won't. The people who want to do it bet that it will. The net result is that if one of the people who bet on it happening makes it happen, they are being paid by the people betting against it, in a plausibly deniable way.

A country leader seeing someone suddenly take out a $50 million position on them not being assassinated is not the $50 million vote of confidence a naive read on the market might indicate, it's a $50 million payout to the assassin. Albeit inefficiently so, since others can take the other side of the bet and do nothing. But the deniability may be worth it.

Re: We haven't seen the worst of what gambling and prediction markets will do

#65
post #13

Assassinations markets are what's next. eg. someone will bet $1M that Elon Musk will be assassinated in 2026. But these don't themselves even have to be legal. Second order wagers will be placed on SpaceX and Tesla stock prices, bets that "a hundred billionaire will die in 2026", etc. A bet that Putin will be assassinated could be encoded in, "there will be regime change in Russia."

If someone want him dead, someone have to bet that million on the target being alive at a specific date. Unless someone plan to do the execution themselves, the bet must be lost for the target to be unalive !

Re: We haven't seen the worst of what gambling and prediction markets will do

#66
post #48

> I don’t think people have thought hard enough about how bad this could get. given that the crypto anarchist papers from the 90s that these markets are built on are very well thought out instruction manuals about how bad it could get, this title implies users are gullible idiots as opposed to the creators and power users An individual's susceptibility to a vice is an individual problem. So I take issue with all the…

You put your own case powerfully, but you don’t seem to have reacted to Derek Thompson‘s case, except to say that you’re not bothered about gambling addiction. (And why not? If people predictably do things that are bad for themselves, that damages the efficiency case for free markets and everything.)

I did read his article, and there are the geopolitical events and the sporting events he talks about.

I don't really understand why sports leagues require faith in their institution. Is the economy overleveraged on collateral debt swaps on league merchandise sells? Is our economy built on preteens in Nebraska believing their only way out of there is a worthwhile pursuit?

I'm not sure why I am supposed to care about the sanctity of that market, what are the consequences of it feeling rigged? and the FBI was on those insider trades instantly, so the sports side seems tightly regulated already whether I understand why a segment of that market needs certain assurances.

And the non-sporting trades I recognize the danger of, the liquidity in the market altering the outcome as someone in control of the outcome does something selfish. I say do what we can to avoid the death markets and the nuclear ones, but distributed bounties otherwise are very transparent and efficient wealth distribution mechanisms that fulfill other goals of compensating labor more correctly.

Re: We haven't seen the worst of what gambling and prediction markets will do

#67
An argument not mentioned here and which I didn’t appreciate until I actually took part in these markets myself, is that you need a supply of stupid/uninformed people to take the other side of the informed people’s bets.(In economic terms, no-trade theorems apply.) That suggests to me that the dream of perfect information revelation isn’t going to come true. Instead, the liquid markets will be those with a large supply of marks, who bet for identity reasons or who are simply ignorant and naive. (Currently polymarket gives a 16% ish probability that Trump will lose office this year. Sounds like wishful thinking to me?)

Re: We haven't seen the worst of what gambling and prediction markets will do

#68
Obligatory: The Policy Analysis Market (PAM), part of the FutureMAP project, was a proposed futures exchange developed, beginning in May 2001, by the Information Awareness Office (IAO) of the United States Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), and based on an idea first proposed by Net Exchange, a San Diego, California, research firm specializing in the development of online prediction markets. PAM was shut down in August 2003 after multiple US senators condemned it as an assassination and terrorism market, a characterization criticized in turn by futures-exchange expert Robin Hanson of George Mason University, and several journalists.[1]

[1]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policy_Analysis_Market

Re: We haven't seen the worst of what gambling and prediction markets will do

#69
post #42

'Predictions' market is the silliest loophole for gambling. Honestly, more surprised Fanduel, DraftKings and the like who have spent millions on lobbying and buying licenses, are not fighting tooth and nail on this.

I prefer prediction markets to gambling because the platform isn't the bookmaker. This reduces the adverse selection of players. For instance, if you actually win regularly on these platforms they'll actually ban you, much like a casino. My understanding of prediction markets is that it's pure market making which is preferable

> I prefer prediction markets to gambling because the platform isn't the bookmaker.

Just because you prefer poker to slots, that doesn't suddenly mean that poker isn't gambling.

Re: We haven't seen the worst of what gambling and prediction markets will do

#70

Any sort of gambling should be limited to, say 20% of your average yearly tax (last 5 years). Prediction market should be banned.

> Any sort of gambling should be limited to, say 20% of your average yearly tax

How about you let people decide what they do with THEIR own money?

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