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Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events
181–190 of 960 posts
Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. It's impossible to have both inclusion and fair play. We have to pick one, and as a parent of daughters who compete at fairly high levels it's more important to preserve the integrity of women's sports.
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> More important than national security and government integrity, I'm told.
Certainly seems that way for a certain subset of voters. They'd rather lose the election than let women compete against females only.
Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
No idea on the hard data. but... We classify competitions for a reason. The competition is more interesting when the competitors are categorized into similar ability. You can't bring your formula1 to a touring car race just because you feel like it is a touring car. Personally I think at the top level there should be an unlimited class. within the rules of the sport anyone can enter, then at various lower prestige le…
bad comparison - here is one better, not a perfect one... You can't enter a car into a boating competition. The question here is: if you take basic precautions to make it the same class of boat - a modified car turned into a boat should be a valid entry - provided the engine speed roughly matches. People worry about cars on water here, not knowing that doesn't exist by definition: any car in water has been modified f…
I see your argument and has some merit but isn't persuasive enough. I would posit that its a bit too loose and that it breaks down on biological people have many more complicated systems that aren't simply re-categorized similar to your car and boat comparison.
For better or worse nor is our medical science sophisticated enough to swap out the systems to be true comparables (and I don't mean to offend anyone).
Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events
#184Generally.. I think people takes sports far too seriously.
So if I take your house. And you complain, I just say: „some people take ownership far too seriously!“ For some people sports is their life and livelihood for that matter, this should be acknowledged.
I think a more fair and accurate comparison would be religion.
Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events
#185It's clear how insane this culture war against trans people is when you consider this only applies to trans women and not trans men? Also, so many of these anti-trans efforts end up hurting cis women too, the ones who happen to look too masculine or have too high of testosterone. Gender is not as straightforward as bigots and transphobes would like to think. I wonder how many cis women will be affected by this ruling…
Trans men have no advantage against cis men.
I'm not sure that is the case in all sports. For example in golf, the top women golfers on LPGA tour in distance are only about as long as the shortest men on PGA tour off the tee, about 290 yards average. However, the women are generally vastly more accurate than the men in pretty much every distance tee to green. Their swing is just a different style of swing afforded by female anatomy. It is more hip driven, "textbook," in fact they have higher hip speed than men who rely more on hand speed.
Now imagine a pro golfer who was born female with those anatomical advantages for golf flexibility, and is now taking testosterone for power, ostensibly to identify as male. Not only do they have the anatomy advantage, they now have the power. They would probably dominate pro golf overall, both sides of the game I expect, whichever one they choose to compete in.
Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
Certainly some of the high profile cases have been fairly absurd. A mid-tier male athletic transitions, and then blows the female record out of the water and gets gold. What I don't know is whether there are wider stats rather than some really big notable cases. It wouldn't surprise me, I just don't have the facts at the moment.
> A mid-tier male athletic transitions, and then blows the female record out of the water and gets gold. Do you have an example of this happening?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurel_Hubbard
This power lifter set regional junior records as a young man then quit the sport and didn't compete for 16 years. After transitioning she went on to win gold medals in numerous international competitions as a woman.
Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events
#187Has anyone measured trans athletes performance? I see this topic come up repeatedly in different guises, protect women from the evil trans-agenda. But I haven't seen where this is actually a problem. Do trans-athletes regularly out perform "born as" (not sure the best way to phrase it) athletes?
There is no standard 'trans athlete'. Every case is different.
Transition is a process. Potentially a long one without a clear point of completion. Which makes things more complicated.
Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events
#188[flagged]
Walk me through how you think this is going to be enforced? Athletes will need to start dropping their pants? Disgusting invasion of privacy.
Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it fair to say that they can just compete in the men's division?
It would not be fair, because the point of having divisions is allow women to compete in a competition that is not dominated by men.
I think you're falling for Sticker Swap Fallacy. The goal is to have fair match-ups in sports. Gender and sex are two possible labels to use to assist with this, but they're imperfect enough that we probably ought to not use them as the primary differentiator.
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/C7LcpRtrHiKJRoAEp/sticker-sh...
Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why not Human Olympics?
Why not ignore gender labels and go by chromosomal configuration? There could be XY and XX [1] olympics. And then there should be X, XYY, XXX, XXXY, XXYY, and all the other possibilities [2]. There is more complexity than the binary in the expression of sex in humans. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_differentiation_in_huma... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex
I agree with you in general, but I think it would be fair to let XY individuals with CAIS compete on the female side - their bodies do not respond to testosterone.