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Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

nytimes.com

161–170 of 960 posts

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem for this argument is that there is no actual data that trans kids and specifically trans girls are any better at sport than other girls. There is considerable evidence that they aren't. But that's not really relevant, because you have to remember segregation in sport has never been about competitive fairness , it has always been about allowing those who are socially superior to avoid the embarrassment o…

There is considerable evidence that trans girls and women have a competitive advantage over women in many sports.

Please present some.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#162
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not Human Olympics?

Already exists, it's what people refer to as "male olympics". As far as I know, females aren't banned from competing. It is just that they don't stand a chance in most disciplines. The whole point of female olympics is to keep males out.

Can trans male who transitioned before puberty compete in male olympics while being pumped full of steroids legally?

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#163

Trans women are women. If you want to see men dressed as women, watch "This is the Army" (1943), an American wartime musical comedy film that features actor Ronald Regan, and a lot of musical numbers performed by men in drag.

If they were you wouldn't need to call them "trans"

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem for this argument is that there is no actual data that trans kids and specifically trans girls are any better at sport than other girls. Literally no trans athletes winning anything. I think hacker news skews scientific so we can do the math, if say 1% of the athletes are trans we would expect them to win 1% of the medals in a fair contest. As it is, they don't even come anywhere close. There has not been…

> The problem for this argument is that there is no actual data that trans kids and specifically trans girls are any better at sport than other girls. There is considerable evidence that they aren't. But that's not really relevant, because you have to remember segregation in sport has never been about competitive fairness , it has always been about allowing those who are socially superior to avoid the embarrassment o…

>...it has always been about allowing those who are socially superior to avoid the embarrassment of having to compete in an environment where they might be defeated by their social inferiors.

Is your argument actually that women don't generally compete with men in sports because the sports don't want to embarrass the male athletes if they lose? If so, I suspect this is a bad faith argument, but if not, you can simply do a little searching to find that there is often quite a bit of difference between the performance of top tier male athletes and top tier female athletes. For example, no woman has ever run a 4 minute mile in competition and more than 2,000 men have and even about 30 high school boys have. I am sure you can find other examples.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source?

From the article: > Late last year Dr. Jane Thornton, the I.O.C.’s medical and scientific director and a Canadian former Olympic rower, presented the initial findings of a review of athletes who are transgender or have differences of sexual development, known as DSD, and are competing in women’s sports. That analysis, which has not been made public, stated athletes born with male sexual markers retained physical adva…

I would be interested to see that analysis, and it's unfortunate that it is not publicly available in some fashion. I'm mainly curious about the number of DSD-expressing vs transgender athletes they reviewed. Trans athletes in the Olympics or even competing at an Olympic level are vanishingly rare.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#167

Only logical result is Transgender Olympics

Why not Human Olympics?

Why not ignore gender labels and go by chromosomal configuration? There could be XY and XX [1] olympics. And then there should be X, XYY, XXX, XXXY, XXYY, and all the other possibilities [2].

There is more complexity than the binary in the expression of sex in humans.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_differentiation_in_huma...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#168
post #21

Trans women have competed as women in the Olympics once ever and have 0 medals. By the numbers it's a non issue under previous rules (despite the incredible amount of ink spilled over it). People are talking about trans women here but the vast majority of people affected by this change are women who are not trans who have a "disorder of sexual development".

Almost every single person on Earth is not built of the right genetic stuff to compete with male Olympic athletes, me and you included. Why do we need a carve out for one particular group because of their genetic bad luck?

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#169
post #21

Trans women have competed as women in the Olympics once ever and have 0 medals. By the numbers it's a non issue under previous rules (despite the incredible amount of ink spilled over it). People are talking about trans women here but the vast majority of people affected by this change are women who are not trans who have a "disorder of sexual development".

The guidelines for trans female athletes for the 2024 Paris Olympics involved transitioning before the age of 12/puberty to be eligible.

There's more info at https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/paris-2024-olym...

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#170
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t seem to be the case, given the first paragraph of the article: > The International Olympic Committee has barred transgender athletes from competing in the women’s category of the Olympics and said that all participants in those events must undergo genetic testing. Genetic testing doesn’t leave a lot of room for accidentally or intentionally targeting women for being “insufficiently feminine.”

Is the "genetic testing" for the presence of a Y chromosome or the presence of the SRY gene? And what about people with AIS? If it's just karyotype, are men with XX male syndrome (SRY gene without an Y chromosome) then allowed to participate in women's sports?

The question comes down if the presence of the SRY gene impact athletic ability. From my reading, it seems very much like an ongoing research topic.

I recall a study looking at genetics in general and how much of professional sport abilities that can be attributed to it, and the number were fairly high for most sports, especially those involving strength and endurance. Genetic disorders like AIS could however also be a hindrance.

I do recall that in some endurance sports, certain genetic disorders involving oxygen delivery were much more common in top elites than in the average population, meaning that people without that disorder is at severe disadvantage compared to general population. It is an ongoing discussion if people with those kind of disorders should be allowed to compete in for example long distance skiing, as the disorder becomes natural doping and would be cheating if a person without the disorder was competing with that kind of blood in their system.

Genetic testing, outside of the culture war about what defines a man or a woman, really comes down to what is fair competition. Personally I can't really say. Does knowing that maybe half of the top skiers has a rare blood disorder make it less fun for people?

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