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Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

nytimes.com

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Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#141

Post by kcmastrpc »

lelanthran wrote: post #109
eirini1 wrote: post #92

what always strikes me as weird is how often the conversation is framed around "men competing in women's sports" when trans women cant really be said to be biologically male anymore. Taking Estrogen and blocking testosterone has a huge effect on how fast/strong/athletic someone is. I feel like that should be the key point of discussion, but somehow always gets burried under other, kind of less relevant subjects (for…

> what always strikes me as weird is how often the conversation is framed around "men competing in women's sports" when trans women cant really be said to be biologically male anymore. Just because they are not male, does not mean that they are female.

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Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#142

Post by briandw »

chrisnight wrote: post #137
briandw wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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If you pay attention, your source has an asterisk of “typically” and “usually”, aswell as a distinction between phenotype and karyotype traits. While it is true that the majority of people with a Y chromosome are male, there are many people with Y chromosomes you’d call female because of their phenotype (which is what society primarily cares about), among other cicumstances.

I specifically said sex. Gender is mostly undefined. If you say that gender is the societal presentation as male or female, but you can’t define male from female then what are you defining? Its the “trans women are women” contradiction.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#143

Post by bigbadfeline »

LetsGetTechnicl wrote: post #106
helterskelter wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trans men don't compete because women are essentially non competitive against men in top level athletics. Which is why trans women are controversial in women's sports. Every year there are hundreds of males highschoolers who outcompete females Olympic gold medalists. By allowing men to compete in women's sports you prioritize the notions of identity of what's usually a single individual over an entire class. It's pla…

Trans women are such a minority in women's sports it's really a non-issue that's been blown out of proportion. There was one trans woman who competed in the 2020 Olympics and she didn't even place. Riley Gaines has made a big deal in MAGA world about tying for 5th with a trans woman in a swimming competition. That means 4 cis women placed ahead of her, and if Lia Thomas hadn't competed, she still would've been in 5th…

> Trans women are such a minority in women's sports it's really a non-issue that's been blown out of proportion.

Indeed, but this is only a good argument for barring trans women from competing against females. You see, if trans athletes are so rare, only a very small number of people would be adversely affected by such a restriction, they can live with it.

On the other hand, the ban would calm down a large number of female athletes who are seriously disturbed by the mere possibility of competing against men, especially in contact sports, but not only.

Women are women, not only physically but also emotionally and mentally. Setting out on a crusade to change the thinking of millions of women is seriously dumb when a simple restriction, affecting 3 people total, can avoid it.

Now, think about making such a dumb idea a cornerstone of some party's political messaging... that can happen only if said party wants the other side to win.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#144

Post by pureagave »

puppycodes wrote: post #85

The differences between cisgender bodies are already so varied that the logic falls apart almost immediately. For that matter why not restrict rich athletes who have access to training and equipment that poor athletes do not? The point at where the line is drawn is entirely arbitrary. Gattaca vibes.

What would happen if we didn't allow a female category for power lifting? Just have human power lifting. Does the NFL have a ban on women in NFL? I don't know but the teams look as I expect they would even without a ban.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#145

Post by cm2187 »

bertylicious wrote: post #49
nilslindemann wrote: post #8

Only logical result is Transgender Olympics

Why not Human Olympics?

Already exists, it's what people refer to as "male olympics". As far as I know, females aren't banned from competing. It is just that they don't stand a chance in most disciplines. The whole point of female olympics is to keep males out.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#146

Post by MengerSponge »

tdb7893 wrote: post #21

Trans women have competed as women in the Olympics once ever and have 0 medals. By the numbers it's a non issue under previous rules (despite the incredible amount of ink spilled over it). People are talking about trans women here but the vast majority of people affected by this change are women who are not trans who have a "disorder of sexual development".

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Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#147

Post by nradov »

eirini1 wrote: post #92

what always strikes me as weird is how often the conversation is framed around "men competing in women's sports" when trans women cant really be said to be biologically male anymore. Taking Estrogen and blocking testosterone has a huge effect on how fast/strong/athletic someone is. I feel like that should be the key point of discussion, but somehow always gets burried under other, kind of less relevant subjects (for…

That isn't the key point. Taking hormone therapy as an adult doesn't erase the huge athletic advantage conferred by going through male puberty.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#148

Post by lelanthran »

altruios wrote: post #128
atmavatar wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that someone who's transitioned is no longer a man. After undergoing surgery and hormone treatment for a long period of time, a trans athlete falls somewhere between men and women in terms of capability. They'd have no more success competing against men than naturally born women would, yet they still have advantages when competing against naturally born women. Unfortunately, while the most equitable so…

Is there actually an advantage? that's toted. but no one can ever point to real data about it... and all the data suggests the exact opposite... that for most cases: cis-women out-compete trans-women.

> but no one can ever point to real data about it...

It's in the article. You may not agree with their findings, but it's there.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#149

Post by metalman »

I think that alt gender athletes can compete as there own group, or we do away with gender (ha), and everybody can compete in everything "fairly", and by fairly I mean nobody gets to have any feelings about this! since when does an ancient universal reality get to be re-decided behind closed doors by anonimous interest groups? and then become taboo to question, hmmmmm?

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#150

Post by lynndotpy »

EA-3167 wrote: post #40
generj wrote: post #28

Not only trans athletes, but any biologically born women the IOC thinks are insufficiently feminine. It’s an unfair advantage apparently. You know, like being born tall for basketball players. Curious how no other biological advantages are being policed.

That doesn’t seem to be the case, given the first paragraph of the article: > The International Olympic Committee has barred transgender athletes from competing in the women’s category of the Olympics and said that all participants in those events must undergo genetic testing. Genetic testing doesn’t leave a lot of room for accidentally or intentionally targeting women for being “insufficiently feminine.”

This might be true if the Olympics were exclusively classifying the 23rd chromosomes, and nothing but.

Leave aside the fact that very few of us here have actually tested our 23rd chromosome. Historically, the Olympics have not been (and are not) strictly chromosomal. The 2023 testosterone suppression decision requirements has exclusively impacted cis women, for one example.

Humans are biologically dimorphic in the same way winters are usually cold and summers are usually hot.

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