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Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

nytimes.com

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Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#91

Post by mbajkowski »

somat wrote: post #34
happymellon wrote: post #9

Has anyone measured trans athletes performance? I see this topic come up repeatedly in different guises, protect women from the evil trans-agenda. But I haven't seen where this is actually a problem. Do trans-athletes regularly out perform "born as" (not sure the best way to phrase it) athletes?

No idea on the hard data. but... We classify competitions for a reason. The competition is more interesting when the competitors are categorized into similar ability. You can't bring your formula1 to a touring car race just because you feel like it is a touring car. Personally I think at the top level there should be an unlimited class. within the rules of the sport anyone can enter, then at various lower prestige le…

One interesting example of this is the UTR system for tennis. It is agnostic in gender as wells as age, and tournaments can be held purely based on the UTR range

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#92

Post by eirini1 »

what always strikes me as weird is how often the conversation is framed around "men competing in women's sports" when trans women cant really be said to be biologically male anymore. Taking Estrogen and blocking testosterone has a huge effect on how fast/strong/athletic someone is. I feel like that should be the key point of discussion, but somehow always gets burried under other, kind of less relevant subjects (for example I dont think it matters that up until now no trans woman has really won anything significant, as that could always change in the future).

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#93

Post by altruios »

somat wrote: post #34
happymellon wrote: post #9

Has anyone measured trans athletes performance? I see this topic come up repeatedly in different guises, protect women from the evil trans-agenda. But I haven't seen where this is actually a problem. Do trans-athletes regularly out perform "born as" (not sure the best way to phrase it) athletes?

No idea on the hard data. but... We classify competitions for a reason. The competition is more interesting when the competitors are categorized into similar ability. You can't bring your formula1 to a touring car race just because you feel like it is a touring car. Personally I think at the top level there should be an unlimited class. within the rules of the sport anyone can enter, then at various lower prestige le…

bad comparison - here is one better, not a perfect one...

You can't enter a car into a boating competition. The question here is: if you take basic precautions to make it the same class of boat - a modified car turned into a boat should be a valid entry - provided the engine speed roughly matches.

People worry about cars on water here, not knowing that doesn't exist by definition: any car in water has been modified from a car to be a boat. you may recognize that it was once a car - but that's vestigial shell stuff. the inter-workings are a propeller - not a wheel.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#94

Post by AnEro »

back_to_reality wrote: post #51
happymellon wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation? I asked because I'm curious, and Googling just gives opinion pieces and not data. [Edit] Currently -3 but no study referenced. Do people just not like the idea of providing evidence for their position? The women I've spoken to about this article cite men being the problem, whether its sexual harassment, or other sexist attitudes. Not one felt that trans participation in their sport of choice was in their to…

Citation? Data? Let's take Paris 2024 track and field 800 m as an example, I won't do all the googling for you. In men's heats, the slowest clocked time was a hair under 1:55. In women's finals (consequently the fastest time of the competition), the winner clocked in at a bit under 1m57, whereas the men's final was won with 1:41 and change. You may look up other competitions by yourself. The reason for the lack of "c…

Well, trans women given current regulations that allowed competition with cis women, would have had to be on hormone replacement therapy for 3-5 years depending on the sport. So the data and context does matter, because the intuitive conclusion you came to isn't touching a dataset to find the rooted-in-reality conclusion. The question is 'is a male with a female hormone balance for over X period time with in a fair difference in biological function to females.'. Which is a complex question, since so many things are at play. How much does fast twitch muscle fiber is retained? How much does that even matter for the sport in question?(ballet vs sprinting) Did they go through male puberty? Where are they working out to retain their muscle mass through their 3-5 year transition period and not losing any of their originally gained muscle? What would it look like if they intentionally lost the muscle mass and then retrained it back?

I find those to be fascinating questions, the later we have little research on, currently, and it could enlighten so much more of exercise science especially for cis athletes as well.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#95

Post by exolymph »

LetsGetTechnicl wrote: post #35

It's clear how insane this culture war against trans people is when you consider this only applies to trans women and not trans men? Also, so many of these anti-trans efforts end up hurting cis women too, the ones who happen to look too masculine or have too high of testosterone. Gender is not as straightforward as bigots and transphobes would like to think. I wonder how many cis women will be affected by this ruling…

Trans men have no advantage against cis men.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#96

Post by bdangubic »

b3ing wrote: post #17

This always should of been left to sports committees than our government, what a waste of our representatives times, but I guess they got the culture war points

unless you live in the olympics the olympic committee is not your representative

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#98

Post by lewdev »

tdb7893 wrote: post #21

Trans women have competed as women in the Olympics once ever and have 0 medals. By the numbers it's a non issue under previous rules (despite the incredible amount of ink spilled over it). People are talking about trans women here but the vast majority of people affected by this change are women who are not trans who have a "disorder of sexual development".

Is it fair to say that they can just compete in the men's division?

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#99

Post by shrx »

tensor wrote: post #43
putzdown wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is checking for a Y chromosome not sufficient? This does not seem to me like an arbitrary definition. What am I missing?

It's in fact possible to develop a female body with XY chromosomes: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6586948/ Also warning that article has images that may be inappropriate in a public setting. I didn't realize when I linked it.

There will always be outliers.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#100

Post by helterskelter »

LetsGetTechnicl wrote: post #35

It's clear how insane this culture war against trans people is when you consider this only applies to trans women and not trans men? Also, so many of these anti-trans efforts end up hurting cis women too, the ones who happen to look too masculine or have too high of testosterone. Gender is not as straightforward as bigots and transphobes would like to think. I wonder how many cis women will be affected by this ruling…

Trans men don't compete because women are essentially non competitive against men in top level athletics. Which is why trans women are controversial in women's sports. Every year there are hundreds of males highschoolers who outcompete females Olympic gold medalists. By allowing men to compete in women's sports you prioritize the notions of identity of what's usually a single individual over an entire class. It's plainly sexist.

As for intersex individuals, put them in their own competitive class.

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