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Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

nytimes.com

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Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#81

Post by dragonwriter »

EA-3167 wrote: post #40
generj wrote: post #28

Not only trans athletes, but any biologically born women the IOC thinks are insufficiently feminine. It’s an unfair advantage apparently. You know, like being born tall for basketball players. Curious how no other biological advantages are being policed.

That doesn’t seem to be the case, given the first paragraph of the article: > The International Olympic Committee has barred transgender athletes from competing in the women’s category of the Olympics and said that all participants in those events must undergo genetic testing. Genetic testing doesn’t leave a lot of room for accidentally or intentionally targeting women for being “insufficiently feminine.”

Genetic testing for what?

I'm just going to leave the headline of this article for you to consider while you answer:

"Report of Fertility in a Woman with a Predominantly 46,XY Karyotype in a Family with Multiple Disorders of Sexual Development"

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2190741/

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#82

Post by LunicLynx »

josefritzishere wrote: post #60

Generally.. I think people takes sports far too seriously.

So if I take your house. And you complain, I just say: „some people take ownership far too seriously!“

For some people sports is their life and livelihood for that matter, this should be acknowledged.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#84

Post by saalweachter »

hervature wrote: post #66
joshuahaglund wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrom... Among others

I am going to try to keep my response apolitical to try to avoid fanning a culture war. That Wiki is the exact reason we are in this situation because we are bringing up points for 1 in 20000 or 0.005% of the population. Any system designed around 0.005% edge cases is going to be so complex that it is functionally impossible to do in practice. That is why one side says the solution is "obvious" because we have a simp…

There are statistically around 15 women AFAB with XY chromosomes in the NCAA by those numbers (assuming no correlation between Swyer syndrome and athletic performance).

There are currently around 10 openly transgender women in the NCAA.

Small numbers either way.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#85

Post by puppycodes »

The differences between cisgender bodies are already so varied that the logic falls apart almost immediately.

For that matter why not restrict rich athletes who have access to training and equipment that poor athletes do not?

The point at where the line is drawn is entirely arbitrary. Gattaca vibes.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#86

Post by xvxvx »

tensor wrote: post #26
xvxvx wrote: post #4

I wonder if anyone has measured the speed in which reality is codified into law or regulation. Women have been fighting against males in female sports for many, many years. Why did it take so long for something so obvious to be acted upon?

To educate others reading this, it's far from "obvious" how to classify gender in sports. Checking if they have the right "parts" physically doesn't do it. Checking for hormone levels doesn't do it. Even checking for Y chromosomes doesn't do it. In my opinion the way forward is to stop trying to find arbitrary ways to define gender, and just start making competition classes based on whatever factors are relevant to t…

[flagged]

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#87

Post by back_to_reality »

altruios wrote: post #76
back_to_reality wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation? Data? Let's take Paris 2024 track and field 800 m as an example, I won't do all the googling for you. In men's heats, the slowest clocked time was a hair under 1:55. In women's finals (consequently the fastest time of the competition), the winner clocked in at a bit under 1m57, whereas the men's final was won with 1:41 and change. You may look up other competitions by yourself. The reason for the lack of "c…

You do understand there is a difference between a trans-woman and a man and that you are comparing incorrect data?

Please do demonstrate the difference in this context.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#88

Post by cbnotfromthere »

tensor wrote: post #26
xvxvx wrote: post #4

I wonder if anyone has measured the speed in which reality is codified into law or regulation. Women have been fighting against males in female sports for many, many years. Why did it take so long for something so obvious to be acted upon?

To educate others reading this, it's far from "obvious" how to classify gender in sports. Checking if they have the right "parts" physically doesn't do it. Checking for hormone levels doesn't do it. Even checking for Y chromosomes doesn't do it. In my opinion the way forward is to stop trying to find arbitrary ways to define gender, and just start making competition classes based on whatever factors are relevant to t…

[dead]

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#89

Post by happymellon »

lelanthran wrote: post #46
happymellon wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation? I asked because I'm curious, and Googling just gives opinion pieces and not data. [Edit] Currently -3 but no study referenced. Do people just not like the idea of providing evidence for their position? The women I've spoken to about this article cite men being the problem, whether its sexual harassment, or other sexist attitudes. Not one felt that trans participation in their sport of choice was in their to…

> I asked because I'm curious, and Googling just gives opinion pieces and not data. Women complaining are voicing an opinion. Is this a good enough citation for the claim that women don't want to compete with men? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gndSDgsMnKI

Considering I was asking whether there was evidence on trans-performance, sure it matters a little.

That's fine if they don't want to compete with men, but the statements were because "it's unfair". I was curious if there had been any studies on this.

Re: Olympic Committee bars transgender athletes from women’s events

#90

Post by tensor »

hervature wrote: post #66
joshuahaglund wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrom... Among others

I am going to try to keep my response apolitical to try to avoid fanning a culture war. That Wiki is the exact reason we are in this situation because we are bringing up points for 1 in 20000 or 0.005% of the population. Any system designed around 0.005% edge cases is going to be so complex that it is functionally impossible to do in practice. That is why one side says the solution is "obvious" because we have a simp…

Except I proposed a solution, which you ignored (I'm assuming here that I'm your "opposing side".)

Also, there are a significant number of these sorts of arguments in high-level sports, probably precisely because these "0.1%" cases are exactly the ones that result in exceptional ability relative to norms. It's also curious that there is such obsession about naturally occurring genetic outliers with respect to females or gender but absolute silence about naturally occurring genetic outliers among men unrelated to gender. And surprise surprise the top athletes often have such outlier genetics!

If you're drawing a distinction between natural genetic difference related to only gender and no other factors then sadly it's exactly a culture war, not a war based in science or fairness.

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