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Running Tesla Model 3's computer on my desk using parts from crashed cars

bugs.xdavidhu.me

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Re: Running Tesla Model 3's computer on my desk using parts from crashed cars

#281
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of their technical and repair manuals are available for free to anyone. That should be the bare minimum. Ford charges you 40 dollar an hour for it and unless you know exactly what you are looking for you will spend several hundreds on it. Too bad ford killed their old site, the print form was unauthenticated and you could print the entire schematics to pdf if you knew the internal model number. Or do what I did…

Any chance someone ripped that old site? Do you remember the URL? I don't have a Ford, just always curious about this stuff.

ETIS is dead and Ford finally pulled the plug, though since the current backend is some semi-custom IBM bloat I would not be surprized if you could get by that without too much hassle (took them three years to find out I was downloading all my car's travel and charging logs before they banned the dummy account, but now they track it and discontinued most of it anyways).

I won't go into details but searching around with the "forum" keyword and etis might get you somewhere (at least that did the trick a few years ago, now with LLM slop I don't know, and what the other person posted).

Re: Running Tesla Model 3's computer on my desk using parts from crashed cars

#282
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A driver could also install a little machine that turns the wheel slightly at regular intervals, to the same effect.

Yeah and they could hire a professional driver or a engineer and IPO for billions a life sized driving AI powered crypto robot too. Look, like clearly google + ctrl-v scripting or running an one click deployment exe on your computer on a whim is different than physically ordering/picking up something and then installing it into a vehicle?

Of course they're different, but you're trying to argue that the former takes objectively less effort than the latter, and it doesn't. One or the other may take less effort depending on who you are and what you know.

Re: Running Tesla Model 3's computer on my desk using parts from crashed cars

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They hit Odin. Odin is the diagnostic tool of Tesla. The tasks they've seen are like "TEST_BRAKE_X_STIFFNESS-TEST-PRESSURE-BURNISHED" and are used to test different components of the car. They're also used for example to reset FSD strikes. In Tesla terms, the infotainment does much more than just playing music - it has full access to the rest of the car.

I remember back when Chrysler did that and researchers were able to shut a Jeep down mid-drive by attacking the internet-connnected infotainment. This doesn't sound great.

You need to be physically connected to the ethernet port and service mode must be enabled. On top of that, to run these you need service mode plus, which requires a subscription (signed JWT). Additionally, IIRC, most of these can't be run if the car is not in park.

Re: Running Tesla Model 3's computer on my desk using parts from crashed cars

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla treats the firmware as licensed software This would be okay if there's a way to reject the license and install my own firmware.

You'd be required to jump through the hoops to get your custom firmware approved by the necessary regulatory bodies, just as Tesla did for theirs. It's not really feasible for a private owner, so I can see why it's not offered as an option.

Surely not if I certified that the car was never going to be used on the road?

Re: Running Tesla Model 3's computer on my desk using parts from crashed cars

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most cases I agree with this, but maybe not for potentially dangerous things like cars? What if someone roots into their car and disables some essential safety feature - maybe even a legally mandated safety feature? More concretely, the expertise-required-to-access-root is in a different field to the expertise-required-to-make-wise-changes. i.e. you might know how to hack a car, but that doesn't mean you know how…

People have been modifying their cars since cars have existed, an electric car shouldn’t be anything new.

Up until v recently cars were not remotely accessible and part of a command-and-control network which Teslas are (perhaps other modern cars are too, I only know Tesla because I have one).

I know that the car reports practically all user events to Tesla in real time over the cell network (eg, open door), and I know it has root access. I don't know if that root is available remotely and I don't know if foundational commands like steering, acceleration and brake are accessible via the CLI (they are computer controlled actions locally)

THUS I would not want to drive a Tesla if there was the possibility of all cars being rooted and remotely controlled by an unauthorized actor.

Re: Running Tesla Model 3's computer on my desk using parts from crashed cars

#287
post #142
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whilst cranking, an ICE car will drop to around 6 volts (then maximum power is extracted according to thevenim's theorem). > That means all computers etc will work at 6v. Not necessarily all of them. Plenty of stuff will drop out while cranking; hopefully not the computers that run the fuel injection and ignition, though.

Interesting. I now know why my windshield wipers quit for a sec when my vw auto stop/start kicks back on.

Some accessories are disconnected while cranking so the battery can supply as much current as possible to the starter.

Re: Running Tesla Model 3's computer on my desk using parts from crashed cars

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>The underlying tension is that "you own the car" means something very different from "you own the software running the car." What does that mean? "The software" is a specific configuration of the hardware you own. How can you own the hardware and not the specific copy of whatever data is on it? Note that I'm not confusing the copy of the data with the IP rights to it.

Because American courts have entertained utterly moronic claims for decades now and the DMCA eliminates any sanity in consumer rights around IP products.

When you bought a DVD, you didn't "Own" the movie, but you had a legal right to do things with that data you didn't "own" anyway, like format shifting and selling that physical object on to another person. You could copy that data off and do things with it. I think technically it would be a copyright violation to then put that movie file into Movie Maker and cut up your own personal highlight reel, but good luck finding a judge willing to hear that case if you don't upload it to youtube.

Now, thanks to the DMCA and courts being absurdly credulous of bullshit arguments from corporate attorneys, you no longer have basic consumer rights. If you try to even inspect the code that runs to protect your literal life, that can be a crime. You own the literal hardware, but if you try to act like you own it, that's a crime. You technically still have the right to format shift a BluRay for example, but bypassing the math protecting that data overrides that "right" and you are guilty of a crime. A CEO's wet dream.

If the DMCA was older, IBM could have prevented the existence of the Clone PC market and ensured a locked up market. We would all be stuck on absurdly shit hardware because that's what was more profitable for IBM.

Pre-DMCA, Sega was told that their trademark rights were overridden by the innate market right to interoperate with their product. IP rights used to be fairly weak! Sony could not prevent a company from selling a software product that ran playstation games. To this day, Nintendo simply pretends these court cases didn't happen.

This is part of why China has so much success in manufacturing and product development IMO. They don't need to develop purposely worse versions of things just so some other company can sit on their hands for 20 years collecting rent. If you want a fast moving market, the ability to lock things down for 20 years is fundamentally unacceptable, only enriching a few owners, and outright harming our country. Basically every time in history that IP rights are weakened or nullified, you see a burst of development and advancement in products and solutions.

Re: Running Tesla Model 3's computer on my desk using parts from crashed cars

#289
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simplest example: a driver could probably disable attentive driving checks by pasting a script in from a web search in a few minutes. Nothing like an inattentive 3750 lbs weapon.

A driver could also install a little machine that turns the wheel slightly at regular intervals, to the same effect.

I've heard multiple people claim an ankle weight on the steering wheel is sufficient for hands-free driving.

Re: Running Tesla Model 3's computer on my desk using parts from crashed cars

#290
post #249

> Turns out that actual cars don’t have individual cables. Instead they have these big “looms”, which bundle many cables from a nearby area into a single harness. This is the reason why I could not find the individual cable earlier. They simply don’t manufacture it. Typical setup for cars (and lawn mowers). As a software guy my first instinct is, computing power is cheap enough, seems like a CAT5-like thing running b…

I read somewhere that the reason they don't typically use IT networking cables / tech is because normal IT infrastructure is a lot less strict with things like packet loss. It's actually not a huge deal to drop packets here and there, especially if any given component is at capacity. But in a car, some devices are super chatty and you can't be dropping packets much at all. That said, I'm sure there's gotta be a bette…

> ...in a car, some devices are super chatty and you can't be dropping packets much at all....there's gotta be a better way to solve it with less copper.

I know CAN is a thing for a while now, and in the aviation world they have ethernet-derived standards like AFDX etc. But for some reason cables abound.

Meh, even in the IT industry cables abound.

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