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The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'

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Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'

#151

I highly recommend Simon Reynold's history of post-punk, Rip It Up and Start Again. An oversimplified version of his argument is that punk as a movement barely existed. It was an extremely brief cultural moment, represented by a small number of bands, the most influential of which (The Sex Pistols) was basically manufactured. There wasn't enough to that initial punk sound other than energy and posturing. What punk re…

I thought about it a lot growing up, as I loved both the ethos, sound and culture of punk. Radical acceptance, the grotesque denial of the aesthetism that is used to sell products etc was all appealing back then.

The "betrayal" of finding how much of the sound was manufactured happened roughly at the same time as I figrued out how everyone at punk concerts could afford 200£ new doc martens when my shoes were falling apart.

But the reality is I think there was a real underlying "want" for that sound,ethos etc but societally there are no publically owned means of distribution. So if the only way to reach people is through private channels, like radio. Then the only people with reach will be those that benefit Capital.

I think society wanted, needed, cared about the punk ethos against the buy/sell your soul hamster wheel the corporate lifestyle promised. The white picket fence was dead as a dream, but the alternative dreams had no way to reach people without passing through the hands/eyes of someone who could make moeny of the new dream. And thats why it only happened briefly and with bands like Sex Pistols that beneffited someone selling Clothes. There was someone who could make money so the sound was given a stage.

But you can see the seeds planted then to show up regularly. Gyarus in japan rejecting traditional beauty standards, grunge as a response to manicured glam rock, the blog era of rap, the acceptance of non traditional genders like non binary/ neo pronouns etc.

Even acts that probably would not describe themselves as Punk like Sofia Isella, who opened for Taylor Swift, use a lot of the codes of punk with her overt embrace of dirty grungyness as opposed to perfectly presentable femininity.

Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'

#152
post #7

If the Ramones put their name on all sorts of merchandise does that make them sellouts? I joke, of course, and I'm a big Ramones fan. I've had numerous iterations of that shirt over the years. I often use them as an example when discussing "what is good art?" They are one of the most influential bands of all time and yet they were terrible musicians.

I believe in the idea that if you really do the hell out of something, you can make up for a lot of shortcomings. Quantity and spirit can substitute for quality in almost all artistic pursuits. Here's Bill Withers on selling out: “Sellout… I’m not crazy about the word. We’re all entrepreneurs. To me, I don’t care if you own a furniture store or whatever – the best sign you can put up is SOLD OUT.”

For me the gold standard take on "selling out" is "Hooker with a Penis" by Tool.

Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'

#153
Maybe fifteen years ago, I saw a teen wearing a Pink Floyd shirt and my internal thought was to ask her which albums she liked (sarcastically, I was pretty jaded at the time). I didn't approach her, of course, that'd be mean.

But years later I remembered that I bought a Pink Floyd tshirt at Hot Topic (for The Wall, scene with the apocalyptic archway with WW2 bombers / planes[0]). I knew who they were as a band and I knew some songs from radio. I didn't really know their music. I didn't become a huge fan until years later. I was that teen girl, turns out.

0. https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a4/6e/50/a46e50cd5ac9f67e15ddfd0ba...

Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'

#155

I was reading an interview with the band "Agriculture" recently and they had a really interesting take on this. From this interview https://www.treblezine.com/agriculture-interview-quiet-viole... : "DM: We exist as a band because we sell t-shirts. Our job is that we sell t-shirts and the way we promote those t-shirts is by playing music. If we were talking strictly economically, that’s just a fact. LL: Weirdly, it’s…

1. I understand the truth of it 2. The inefficiency bugs me I.e. I want to support the band, but feel like only a fraction of the money spent on merch goes to the target. Same with websites that have mugs and such. I don't want another mug, I don't want to pay 5.99 for shipping, I don't need to support the white box oem mug manufacturer. But I guess in the real pragmatical world, that's the support mechanism that act…

> I want to support the band, but feel like only a fraction of the money spent on merch goes to the target.

Maybe you don't have any friends that are in a band, but if it's the band members or friends of the band selling the merch, they are getting 100% of the profit. They design the shirts, they pay for the printing of the shirts, they then sell the shirts directly with their own hands. There's no middleman taking cuts. Now, if you're buying their merch from some 3rd party website, that site probably takes a cut. Some bands selling merch on their own website could still be coming directly from the band if one of them, or again a friend, sets up the site with their own accounts using square/stripe/etc and deals with the fulfillment themselves they are minimizing cuts as well.

Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. I understand the truth of it 2. The inefficiency bugs me I.e. I want to support the band, but feel like only a fraction of the money spent on merch goes to the target. Same with websites that have mugs and such. I don't want another mug, I don't want to pay 5.99 for shipping, I don't need to support the white box oem mug manufacturer. But I guess in the real pragmatical world, that's the support mechanism that act…

Just give them money directly without the merch. Or purchase their music, most (small) bands sell it directly as well.

If the band signed with someone to help produce the album you're buying, they probably owe a cut to cover the costs of recording, mixing, cutting/pressing, releasing that album.

Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'

#158
I'm not sure if this an urban legend but, it's cool anyway. The name "Ramones" is an adaptation from "Jamon", Paul Jamon, a fake name Paul Mccartney used in hotel check-ins to avoid stalking fans. So most if not all Ramones members through history changed their last name, family name, to "Ramone" to honor the tradition and be a Remone forever in Rock history. Again, this is cool enough for me on top of the great music they've made.

Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'

#159
I was talking with a friend who is a promoter and runs a regular dj party kind of thing, not unlike 'boiler room' back in the early days. he makes all his money selling merch.

Donald Trump, despite his numerous financial schemes, makes a lot of his money selling shirts, or hats, or phones or credit cards with his name on it. it's probably the only legitimate business operations that he has.

it's kinda crazy how, when you boil it all down, so much of the american economy is just selling merch

Re: The truth that haunts the Ramones: 'They sold more T-shirts than records'

#160

I was reading an interview with the band "Agriculture" recently and they had a really interesting take on this. From this interview https://www.treblezine.com/agriculture-interview-quiet-viole... : "DM: We exist as a band because we sell t-shirts. Our job is that we sell t-shirts and the way we promote those t-shirts is by playing music. If we were talking strictly economically, that’s just a fact. LL: Weirdly, it’s…

It's very smart of them to recognize that. The world is full of these weird business cases where people aren't aware of the actual product, like how Starbucks US morphed from a coffee shop into an iced dessert drinks company that also incidentally sells hot coffee. Edit: Other fun examples - In the mid-2000s, Porsche was an incredibly successful hedge fund that also sold cars who tried to acquire VW using a short squ…

Now do the International Code Council, and Harvard, and Unicef, and government departments, and, and, and.....

The reason we don't evaluate things in this "measure what is actually goin on" manner is because the actual goings on are only able to go on as they do so long as a public image that emphasizes something else is maintained.

People wouldn't go to starbucks in the manner they do if they thought of it as a sugary drink place.

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