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End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

patrick-breyer.de

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Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#91

Post by kergonath »

embedding-shape wrote: post #49
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #11

This will come back because too many EU countries want it.

Judging by https://howtheyvote.eu/votes/189270 , the outliers who seem to want this, would be France, Hungary, Poland and Ireland, all other countries seems to had the majority MEPs voting against it.

It’s more complicated than that. MEPs do not represent countries, so you can say that most MEP from $country were for or against, but that would not necessarily be the position of the country’s government. For that you have to look at what happens in the council of the EU, which is composed of government ministers.

It is not exceptional for most MEP from a member state to be in the opposition at the national level, particularly in contexts where it is seen as a protest vote. Turnout is usually low for European elections, so they tend to swing a bit more than national elections.

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#92

Post by whywhywhywhy »

latexr wrote: post #79
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #58

It doesn’t matter they can just keep trying and paying people off until it gets through. Someone somewhere really really wants this and has the time and resources so it’s an inevitability.

It does matter. Even if it eventually passes, the later and more gutted it is, the better. Saying that it doesn’t matter is just defeatist (and unfortunately always parroted on HN) and plainly wrong. Defeatists have been proven wrong time and again.

Perhaps a system where that can happen is broken

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#93

Post by marginalia_nu »

freehorse wrote: post #65

So, in the end a big majority of the conservative/liberal faction (EPP) voted against, and the vast majority of the social democractic faction (S&D) voted for chat control. https://howtheyvote.eu/votes/189270 Just pointing this out because yesterday there was the myth around that "chat control is pushed by the conservatives", obscuring the actual political dynamics in the EU about it.

There's also the DDR and Stasi as a counter example if anyone think mass surveillance is incompatible with socialism.

Mass surveillance isn't really a question that projects well onto the left-right scale, and attempting to make it fit a left-right question is more likely to distract than provide a useful understanding.

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#96

Post by freehorse »

ecshafer wrote: post #26
miroljub wrote: post #15

[flagged]

The EU is fundamentally flawed. There are no checks and balances, and its only democratic if you squint and look at it the right way. People need to directly elect the MPs, directly elect some kind of president. They have no accountability, no checks and balances.

I agree there is a strong democratic deficit in the current EU governance structure, but I disagree with a proposal such as

> directly elect some kind of president

We do not need a president with over-powers, and electing directly one does not solve anything for democracy, as the recent history in countries like the US and France shows. The point of directly electing a president is giving that role more power. The current structure in the EU is not so much president-centric either executive or legislative wise, but more like comission-centric, which is what imo has the biggest problem in terms of democracy in the EU.

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#97

Post by nazgulsenpai »

wongarsu wrote: post #84
latexr wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Its real name is “Regulation to Prevent and Combat Child Sexual Abuse”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chat_Control

Perfect name. Who in their right mind would ever vote against the Regulation to Prevent and Combat Child Sexual Abuse? Imagine if your voters heard that

Yep, and it will make it more difficult to pass legislation designed to actually help combat child exploitation when a large(ish) portion of the population immediately equate "for the children" with a power grab.

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#98

Post by naasking »

Kim_Bruning wrote: post #86
ecshafer wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is fundamentally flawed. There are no checks and balances, and its only democratic if you squint and look at it the right way. People need to directly elect the MPs, directly elect some kind of president. They have no accountability, no checks and balances.

Checks and balances means some folks should NOT be directly elected. if everyone is , then you have checked and balanced by . Which is to say, not at all. :-P

You could have a system where everyone is directly elected while keeping checks and balances, if voting were restricted, eg. maybe everyone can vote for a president/prime minister, but only non-teachers can vote for an education minister, and only non-finance people can vote for something like the Fed chief, etc. The point being the checks and balances now happen because other groups keep your group in check by voting.

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#99

Post by anonymars »

miroljub wrote: post #82
sveme wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in summary: because the law was avoided today, the EU needs to be abolished? Weird take. You can see it the other way around, without the EU, Denmark and others would have already implemented ChatControl in their country. This is driven by member states (Denmark), not the parliament, after all.

> So in summary: because the law was avoided today, the EU needs to be abolished? Weird take. There are many reasons to abolish the EU, but the topic here is chat control. > You can see it the other way around, without the EU, Denmark and others would have already implemented ChatControl in their country. This is driven by member states (Denmark), not the parliament, after all. Would they? We don't know. Would the go…

Isn't the UK a perfect control group? Didn't the EU push back on similar legislation, until Brexit?

> insisting again and again on something so unpopular?

Didn't the UK do exactly this?

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#100

Post by saidnooneever »

integralid wrote: post #45
mantas wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or it will get a new name. Just like „Chat Control“ is far from the first name for this BS.

we can learn from our American friends and call it something like CHILDREN SAFETY ACT. So you want to hurt children, huh? I hope not

this is litterally what they do. point at opposition and try to imply they are pro child abuse. actually really sick to use such a method. I suppose that is what u get for decades long degradation of education and other things. A bunch of childish freaks in power who can only try to chuck eachother under the bus instead of doing something actually good.

they care less and less about it being obvious too.

our new prime minister (NL) was asked about some campaign promises recently (ones important to a lot of his voters actually) and he justs plainly said somethin like: yeah well sometimes u just gotta say shit to get votes.

i mean, its not news ofc... but now they dont even care to mask it. They know the public will just bend over and take it anyway.

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