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End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

patrick-breyer.de

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Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#31

Post by sveme »

ecshafer wrote: post #26
miroljub wrote: post #15

[flagged]

The EU is fundamentally flawed. There are no checks and balances, and its only democratic if you squint and look at it the right way. People need to directly elect the MPs, directly elect some kind of president. They have no accountability, no checks and balances.

The commission is checked by the parliament is checked by the council is checked by the commission. Most other national organizations only have one check - Germany, for example, only has the Bundesrat as a check of the Bundestag.

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#34

Post by cbg0 »

ecshafer wrote: post #26
miroljub wrote: post #15

[flagged]

The EU is fundamentally flawed. There are no checks and balances, and its only democratic if you squint and look at it the right way. People need to directly elect the MPs, directly elect some kind of president. They have no accountability, no checks and balances.

> The EU is fundamentally flawed. There are no checks and balances

You're missing a [citation needed] on that.

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#35

Post by rsynnott »

ecshafer wrote: post #26
miroljub wrote: post #15

[flagged]

The EU is fundamentally flawed. There are no checks and balances, and its only democratic if you squint and look at it the right way. People need to directly elect the MPs, directly elect some kind of president. They have no accountability, no checks and balances.

> People need to directly elect the MPs

...

We do? What did you think the European Parliament elections every four years were for?

> directly elect some kind of president.

Why? Nowhere in Western Europe except very arguably France (France, as always, has to be a bit weird about everything, and has a hybrid system) has a directly elected executive. True executive presidential systems are only really a thing in the Americas and Africa (plus Russia, these days).

Like, in terms of big countries with a true executive presidency, you’re basically looking at the US, Russia and Brazil. I’m, er, not sure we should be modeling ourselves on those paragons of democracy.

> They have no accountability, no checks and balances.

The parliament has the same accountability and checks and balances as any national parliament, more or less (more than some, as the ECJ is more effective and independent than many national supreme courts).

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#36

Post by gpderetta »

ecshafer wrote: post #26
miroljub wrote: post #15

[flagged]

The EU is fundamentally flawed. There are no checks and balances, and its only democratic if you squint and look at it the right way. People need to directly elect the MPs, directly elect some kind of president. They have no accountability, no checks and balances.

People directly elects MEPs. And the Parliament literally right now just put a check on the Council.

Many EU nations are not presidential, and personally I prefer parliamentary republics than presidential ones.

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#37

Post by bilekas »

ecshafer wrote: post #26
miroljub wrote: post #15

[flagged]

The EU is fundamentally flawed. There are no checks and balances, and its only democratic if you squint and look at it the right way. People need to directly elect the MPs, directly elect some kind of president. They have no accountability, no checks and balances.

> People need to directly elect the MP

They do.

> directly elect some kind of president

I get the impression you're coming at it from a US perspective, and it's not that, and doesn't intend to be for now. The president is elected by majority of the MP's who have been elected by the people of their respective countries. Almost like the US electorial system, except it's done internally because people generally only vote for their own best interests and not that of the entirety.

Perfect, no, it can be slow and a lot of red tape, but what system isn't flawed.

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#38

Post by gpderetta »

rsynnott wrote: post #35
ecshafer wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is fundamentally flawed. There are no checks and balances, and its only democratic if you squint and look at it the right way. People need to directly elect the MPs, directly elect some kind of president. They have no accountability, no checks and balances.

> People need to directly elect the MPs ... We do? What did you think the European Parliament elections every four years were for? > directly elect some kind of president. Why? Nowhere in Western Europe except very arguably France (France, as always, has to be a bit weird about everything, and has a hybrid system) has a directly elected executive. True executive presidential systems are only really a thing in the Ame…

> We do? What did you think the European Parliament elections every four years were for?

Probably it is not taught as part of the curriculum in Russia.

Re: End of "Chat Control": EU parliament stops mass surveillance

#39

Post by olex »

0xy wrote: post #28
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #11

This will come back because too many EU countries want it.

Bastion of democracy Germany will be pushing hard given they let slip they want mandatory IDs on social media. They want full control.

German MEPs voted overwhelmingly against the extension: https://howtheyvote.eu/votes/189270 ("Countries" tab).
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