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Swift 6.3

swift.org

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Re: Swift 6.3

#41

Post by myko »

WillAdams wrote: post #24
ttflee wrote: post #2

> Swift 6.3 includes the first official release of the Swift SDK for Android.

Anything similar for Windows and Linux? For Windows there's a 5 year old blog post: https://www.swift.org/blog/swift-on-windows/ For Linux there's a guide for GNOME: https://www.swift.org/blog/adwaita-swift/ It would be really nice if instead we could just do one style of development and then ship a set of libraries as used to work for OpenSTEP (which was why it had "OPEN" in the name).

I haven't shipped any Swift on Windows myself but I have a production Linux system using Swift (and C++ interop) and it works really well

Re: Swift 6.3

#42

Post by commandersaki »

oefrha wrote: post #30
dzonga wrote: post #13

good to see incredible stuff being shipped in Swift. Haven't used it since v3 though. around 2015-17 - Swift could have easily dethroned Python. it was simple enough - very fast - could plug into the C/C++ ecosystem. Hence all the numeric stuff people were doing in Python powered by C++ libraries could've been done with Swift. the server ecosystem was starting to come to life, even supported by IBM. I think the letdo…

> Swift could have easily dethroned Python No way something that compiles as slowly as Swift dethrones Python. Edit: Plus Swift goes directly against the Zen of Python > Explicit is better than implicit. > Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those! coupled with shitty LSP support (even to this day) makes code even harder to understand than when you `import *` in Python. Edit 2: To expand a littl…

Plus Swift goes directly against the Zen of Python

The Zen of Python is how we got crap like argparse where arguments are placed in the namespace instead of a dict.

Re: Swift 6.3

#43

Post by robmccoll »

bossyTeacher wrote: post #37
oefrha wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Swift could have easily dethroned Python No way something that compiles as slowly as Swift dethrones Python. Edit: Plus Swift goes directly against the Zen of Python > Explicit is better than implicit. > Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those! coupled with shitty LSP support (even to this day) makes code even harder to understand than when you `import *` in Python. Edit 2: To expand a littl…

> Explicit is better than implicit. That's funny. To me magic is implicit by definition and Python strikes me as a very magical language compared to something like Java that is way more explicit.

Until you start using frameworks like Spring and then everything is so painfully magic that no one knows how the program actually runs.

Re: Swift 6.3

#44

Post by Batbird »

troupo wrote: post #27

> @c @specialized @inline(always) @export(implementation) Reminds me of "In case you forgot, Swift has 217 keywords now" https://x.com/jacobtechtavern/status/1841251621004538183

I remember jumping into Swift from Obj-C in 2014 and using words like "beautiful" and "expressive" to describe syntax, and saying things like "you can tell what language someone is coming from by how they code in Swift". Now it's grown as it has - sometimes feels like season 4 of Lost. Makes me feel old too.

Re: Swift 6.3

#45

Post by ljm »

iamcalledrob wrote: post #15
gregoriol wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is going to be used... less than Swift for the servers

Interestingly, Kotlin has a pretty solid cross-platform story. I'd pick it over Swift if targeting Android since it can build and run in the JVM as well as natively -- and has Swift/ObjC interop. Its also very usable on the server if you wanted to, since you can use it in place of Java and tap into the very mature JVM ecosystem. If that's what you're into. And I have a lot more faith in JetBrains being good stewards…

Kotlin is practically a no-brainer when you have JVM at your finger tips, versus something like Swift which is comparatively young.

I tried to use Vapor with Swift recently and struggled to get something working because the documentation looked comprehensive, but had a lot of gaps. I ended up throwing it out because I didn't have the time to dig through the source to understand how to do something, when I could use a mature framework in any other language instead.

The promise is there but I'm just not ready to invest. My youthful days of unbounded curiosity are coming to an end and these days I just want to get something done without much faff.

Re: Swift 6.3

#47

Post by willtemperley »

eptcyka wrote: post #26
willtemperley wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which keywords would you get rid of and why? You don't have to use all of them!

You can take this approach in personal projects - with teams you need to decide on this and then on-board people into your use of the language. This does not work.

Yes exactly, it’s easy to blame a language when really it’s a team problem.

Re: Swift 6.3

#48

Post by mi_lk »

vmsp wrote: post #38
dzonga wrote: post #13

good to see incredible stuff being shipped in Swift. Haven't used it since v3 though. around 2015-17 - Swift could have easily dethroned Python. it was simple enough - very fast - could plug into the C/C++ ecosystem. Hence all the numeric stuff people were doing in Python powered by C++ libraries could've been done with Swift. the server ecosystem was starting to come to life, even supported by IBM. I think the letdo…

True. Google was even thinking of switching TensorFlow from Python to Swift. https://github.com/tensorflow/swift

That’s really because Chris Lattner was at Google Brain at the time. Don’t think it ever took off in meaningful ways

Re: Swift 6.3

#49

Post by well_ackshually »

ljm wrote: post #45
iamcalledrob wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, Kotlin has a pretty solid cross-platform story. I'd pick it over Swift if targeting Android since it can build and run in the JVM as well as natively -- and has Swift/ObjC interop. Its also very usable on the server if you wanted to, since you can use it in place of Java and tap into the very mature JVM ecosystem. If that's what you're into. And I have a lot more faith in JetBrains being good stewards…

Kotlin is practically a no-brainer when you have JVM at your finger tips, versus something like Swift which is comparatively young. I tried to use Vapor with Swift recently and struggled to get something working because the documentation looked comprehensive, but had a lot of gaps. I ended up throwing it out because I didn't have the time to dig through the source to understand how to do something, when I could use a…

Mind you, Kotlin/Native (which is what gets used when you're compiling for iOS) doesn't have access to the JVM.

However, the Kotlin community is fundamentally all about open source, whereas Apple & iOS Devs have an allergy to it. The quality and quantity is already miles above the vast majority of what's in the Swift ecosystem. https://klibs.io has all the native compatible libs. And if you're targeting a platform where the JVM is available then yeah, it's massive. Compose makes UI tolerable compared to JWT too. Even large projects like Spring are Kotlin first nowadays.

Re: Swift 6.3

#50

Post by drzaiusx11 »

No mention of compilation speed improvements? Very unfortunate. Compilation times slower than rust really hampers the devx of this otherwise decent language.
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