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Why Is the Surface So Bad?

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Re: Why Is the Surface So Bad?

#81
I waited in line for ~4 hours to pick up a Surface on launch day and ended up returning it a little over a week later.

This review touched on performance, but it really was abysmal. Nothing was quite as painful as watching other people use the device; swipe gestures and touch points were frequently missed, the swipe-down gesture necessary to close or dock a metro app lagged behind by several seconds and took literally a dozen tries to successfully pull off, and even after installing the optional updates by going to the desktop control panel, I was still able to out-type the stock Mail application, using the touch cover at an abysmal ~10WPM. That was after waiting 5-10 seconds for the mail client to launch in the first place.

App support was the biggest offender, and I get that this is a short-term problem. That said, searching the app store for an SSH client and seeing nothing was a deal breaker. In the absence of useful applications, a terminal window that I could use to get somewhere to do actual work would have been great. Even in games, it feels like the strategy was all wrong. The usual suspects (Angry Birds, Fruit Ninja, etc) are there, but this would be my 4th or 5th time purchasing those games. Really don't have an interest in buying them again, and the original content under the New Releases section is really lackluster; apps that are still using the default Visual Studio app icon aren't uncommon, nor are apps with written entirely in different languages than the target market. The whole quality control angle seems sloppy.

If I could have installed another browser or had access to the Chrome web store, that would have been enough of a mitigation for app support, but those aren't options either.

The out-of-box apps are, understandably, incredibly Microsoft-centric. Couldn't change default search provider in Internet Explorer and the messaging client only had support for Live Messenger and Facebook. The app store currently has nothing available for music options (no Pandora/Spotify/etc). The browser is an option, but the Metro browser stops playing audio once the device auto-locks.

The speakers were really bad. With any level of ambient background noise, watching something on Netflix required my face to be less than a foot away to actually make out dialog. Was a common theme among other people using the device as well.

Touch cover was incredibly hit or miss and missed more often than not. In retrospect, I should have gotten a Type cover.

If the Surface had released with the iPad 2, it would be a competitive offering. At this stage in the game, though, it's competing with entrenched 4th generation and beyond offerings with years of developer support. Worse yet, it's walking into new tablets with specifications that are nearly twice as good for less money.

That said, the form factor of the Surface is incredibly solid. If someone sold a tablet with the Nexus 10 internals in a Surface form factor, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

Re: Why Is the Surface So Bad?

#82

The Surface is "Bad" because you're comparing it with the iPad 4, the Kindle Fire HD, the Asus Transformer (3rd or 4th gen), etc. Microsoft missed the first 3 or so iterations of touch-only tablet computing. There are bug fixes and refinements to come I'm sure. Compare the Surface to original iPad when it first came out and maybe it's not so bad? Granted, the surface isn't competing with the original iPad, it's compe…

My only suggestion is that v1 of anything will be a bit jankedy. I'm not making excuses for Surface at all, just that a reasonable person expects problems with a v1 product, esp from MSFT.

Re: Why Is the Surface So Bad?

#83

I waited in line for ~4 hours to pick up a Surface on launch day and ended up returning it a little over a week later. This review touched on performance, but it really was abysmal. Nothing was quite as painful as watching other people use the device; swipe gestures and touch points were frequently missed, the swipe-down gesture necessary to close or dock a metro app lagged behind by several seconds and took literall…

Were you honestly unable to type faster than 10wpm after using it for a week? I find that....odd to believe (not saying you're lying - I just find it strange). How fast can you type normally? On my regular desktop keyboard I type at an average of 80wpm which I think is ok. On my touchcover I can type at an average of like 65wpm. So sure, slower than my desktop keyboard but not frustrating by any means.

I'd say that I got up to speed and used to the keyboard within a day or two of use.

I'm glad that you acknowledge that the app store problem is short-term. A lot of reviewers disregard that. I am quite confident that the apps will come so you just need to be patient. With that said, I'd like to point out that there is a pandora app (not sure if it is official, but it works fine). Spotify I am still waiting for but Xbox Music does the job until then.

Agreed that the speakers are meh.

I don't know though. I'd still pick this over an iPad any day of the week. The keyboard really does it for me. I'm typing this comment out on my desktop but I could have just as easily typed it from my Surface. Try doing that on an iPad. It would be exhausting. So even for tasks that aren't "work" but just involve creating content (even something as small as a HN comment) - the surface runs laps around iPad.

edit: one final thing. Remote desktop is a great feature on this device. Whenever I want to use an x86 app on Surface RT, I just remote into my desktop at home. Works pretty much flawlessly. I especially like that typing seems to be simulated from the client end, so even if there IS network lag, your typing isn't affected by it.

Re: Why Is the Surface So Bad?

#84
post #83

I waited in line for ~4 hours to pick up a Surface on launch day and ended up returning it a little over a week later. This review touched on performance, but it really was abysmal. Nothing was quite as painful as watching other people use the device; swipe gestures and touch points were frequently missed, the swipe-down gesture necessary to close or dock a metro app lagged behind by several seconds and took literall…

Were you honestly unable to type faster than 10wpm after using it for a week? I find that....odd to believe (not saying you're lying - I just find it strange). How fast can you type normally? On my regular desktop keyboard I type at an average of 80wpm which I think is ok. On my touchcover I can type at an average of like 65wpm. So sure, slower than my desktop keyboard but not frustrating by any means. I'd say that I…

On a normal keyboard, I hit 120+ WPM. On the Touch keyboard, I spent more time correcting typoos and missed keystrokes than typing for sure. I'd have to have a camera on the keyboard to see where things went wrong, because it _seemed_ like I should be hitting all the keys I expected to hit, but I'm more than happy to acknowledge that what I really wanted was the keyboard cover with tactile feedback. The Touch keyboard was something I didn't get used to at all.

My usage patterns were incredibly light; it mostly sat near desktops or laptops as a mail client. With the app ecosystem and text input as it was, I was at a loss for other things I could do with it. By the end of the week, it was more or less a front end for Trello boards.

One of the compelling points was having a tablet platform in which real work can get done, but in the absence of an SSH client or text editor with syntax highlighting, that didn't really hold true for me (again, short-term problems). I can see where it'd make sense for folks that specifically need Office to get meaningful work done, but that wasn't the case for me.

That said, the ability to sideload Ubuntu and Chromium on the Nexus devices looks incredibly compelling. Really curious to see how that shapes up.

Re: Why Is the Surface So Bad?

#85

Why is this article so full of errors? However, I've tested the RT and I woudn't buy it. But the RT is just a reduced version of what the pro version will be: Something that aims to be a laptop that you can work on. After testing it I am definetly going to give the pro a shot. Not as an iPad replacement as the iPad was never something to work with. But as a laptop replacement. Because... - it gets rid of the dead wei…

What errors were identified in the article?

Re: Why Is the Surface So Bad?

#86
post #76
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it does not make much sense to compare these versions - Windows started being a modern OS with Win 2000 and arguably already Windows 95. These were the releases that won them the desktop dominance. That's probably why you are feeling Windows is "older".

Windows NT was much older, from the early 90's, which was the basis for Windows 2000, XP, Vista, and Win7. The subsequent releases were mere upgrade and fixes of the original OS.

Yes, but Windows NT never was popular outside out business.

Re: Why Is the Surface So Bad?

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And because you still see people using XP from time to time, but how many % of the tech population have ever seen OS X 10.0? I got into Macs seven years ago , and I only know the 10.3 installer because I'd intentionally bought an "oldtimer Mac" later on (iMac G4). Everything before that is a web of myths to me.

IMO you still see people using XP because that was the peak. It was certainly better than Vista, I cannot give an unbiased review of Win 7.

I think XP might really have been the peak in usability, but under the hood, I can only guess that Windows 7 has gotten much more secure. After all, improving security is pretty much the only thing Microsoft has done between XP and Windows 7.

Re: Why Is the Surface So Bad?

#88
post #79

Here's how I see it playing out, Microsoft will be successful with the Surface if they take it seriously and update it often and fast. They have a lot of catching up to do and it's a seriously great start to something different and unique. I suspect it will move in the direction of how people use it and want it to work. When Apple brought OS X out to the world for the first time, it was extremely slow, basically unus…

Mac OSX was never hideous to look at. The interface may have been slow, but the multi-tasking on it was awesome at the time. I remember being able to play DVD's and browse the web and download large files at the time and the system never blinked, and no frames were ever dropped on the DVD playback. Regarding the Surface, the hardware is nice, and the software can fortunately be fixed. The question is will enough peop…

That is of course a matter of taste, but early OS X versions were very unappealing to me.

Here's a screenshot of 10.3 (Panther): http://iindigo3d.com/macos/macosx103.jpg

Re: Why Is the Surface So Bad?

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well what else is he supposed to compare it to?

No doubt about it, the surface should be compared with the iPad, but that's not what i'm complaining about. The reviewer states: "The iPad may not allow you to do everything, but Apple has made sure that it’s great at what it can do. The Surface, by contrast, will let you do everything you want. The problem is that you’ll have no fun doing it." My problem, is that the reviewer (at least in the article) seemed to make…

> My problem, is that the reviewer (at least in the article) seemed to make no attempt to go outside of the limits of the iPad with the Surface.

Maybe that's the point of the author then - that there is nothing that Surface can do (for him) that an iPad can't. The only example I can think of is Office, and it doesn't sound like the author needs it:

>> After using them a few times, the Office apps came to seem like a marketing gimmick—a way to insist that the Surface is different, even if the difference isn’t actually useful.

What else is there?

Re: Why Is the Surface So Bad?

#90
post #88
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mac OSX was never hideous to look at. The interface may have been slow, but the multi-tasking on it was awesome at the time. I remember being able to play DVD's and browse the web and download large files at the time and the system never blinked, and no frames were ever dropped on the DVD playback. Regarding the Surface, the hardware is nice, and the software can fortunately be fixed. The question is will enough peop…

That is of course a matter of taste, but early OS X versions were very unappealing to me. Here's a screenshot of 10.3 (Panther): http://iindigo3d.com/macos/macosx103.jpg

While maybe not quite so attractive as later OS X versions, it compares rather favourably to Windows XP.
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