does preempt_rt actually confer a ui responsiveness benefit on multicore systems?
VitruvianOS – Desktop Linux Inspired by the BeOS
211–220 of 234 posts
Re: VitruvianOS – Desktop Linux Inspired by the BeOS
#212I installed BeOS in the 90s as a kid. It was awesome, and I love seeing this.
Re: VitruvianOS – Desktop Linux Inspired by the BeOS
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
I studied the MS antitrust case extensively when it was happening, and I agree that the abuse against BeOS was MS greatest antitrust offense. However, as a fan of BeOS, I see no evidence at all that Be Inc. would have been successful if MS hadn't abused its position. Unfortunately we will never really know what might have been.
Yeah, Be Inc. made no sense at all for its own purposes. The reason it existed is that Apple (yes, that one) had fired one of its executives - Jean-Louis Gassée often abbreviated to "JLG" - and he wanted to show they were wrong. AIUI the intended exit was either an acquihire (Apple gets JLG back and the Be Inc. "journey" ends once people tidy up) or maybe Apple's software side fully embraces Be Inc. (after all JLG is…
NeXTSTEP was developed from 1989 and then acquired by Apple in late 1996.
BeOS first release was Oct 1995.
Perhaps BeOS just wasn't far enough along in comparison? Shame..
Re: VitruvianOS – Desktop Linux Inspired by the BeOS
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
I remember being very disappointed when Apple went with the NeXT tech instead of the Be tech. I was in undergrad when that happened. In retrospect though, the company wasn't making a technology decision. They were making a decision between Jobs and Gassee. Jobs came with NeXT and Gassee came with Be. I don't think the technology mattered that much in the large scale of things. Jobs brought with him a strategy for mov…
In retrospect though, the company wasn't making a technology decision. They were making a decision between Jobs and Gassee. Jobs came with NeXT and Gassee came with Be. I don't think the technology mattered that much in the large scale of things. Yes and no. The core of the purchase decision was really based on the technology. Ellen Hancock (Apple's CTO at the time) actually did a decent analysis of BeOs and NeXTStep…
Always interesting to get an insiders take! I really appreciate the insight.
Re: VitruvianOS – Desktop Linux Inspired by the BeOS
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
I ran OS/2 Warp and was a fan of it... But to say that it was simply "better" than Windows 95 is a bridge too far. It had its strengths (rock solid multitasking) but also plenty of rough edges.
Honestly any OS with real multi-tasking, real security, and real memory protection was better than Windows 95 (and 98). OS/2 was better. BeOS was better. Linux was better. Windows NT was better.
It was just the games were on 95.
Re: VitruvianOS – Desktop Linux Inspired by the BeOS
#216Tangible:
Talking about BeOS, this is the most fantastic piece of technological fiction I read about:
https://www.haiku-os.org/legacy-docs/benewsletter/Issue4-8.h...
Re: VitruvianOS – Desktop Linux Inspired by the BeOS
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
Looks like this is a thin translation layer for BeOS/Haiku syscalls. I wonder why they aren't relying on Syscall User Dispatch https://docs.kernel.org/6.19/admin-guide/syscall-user-dispat... which would enable them to put this compatibility layer in user space. It's already being used by recent Wine versions.
It's not really a translation layer, nexus implements the same BeOS/Haiku IPC in kernel but using linux kernel primitives. It's not as much as a translation layer than any other IPC in the linux system, really BeOS/Haiku apps are first class citizens.
Most of BeOS IPC is in mainline Linux kernel [1] - the difference here seems to be implementing some of the services that are supposed to be available related to filesystem etc and the user land side of it (raw IPC does very little without another layer on top)
[1] - there's a reason why a bunch of BeBook reads the same as some of the oldest parts of Android documentation
Re: VitruvianOS – Desktop Linux Inspired by the BeOS
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do share a screenshot if you do. What refreshrate do you have on that display?
I think, in case of e-Ink photo is much more informative, as screenshot takes data from frame buffer and didn't take screen technology in account.
:P lol indeed a screeshot would be full color
Perhaps I can place the monitor on my scanner and take a “screenshot” that way xD
Re: refresh rates I can’t find a good stat with a brief googling but it’s a Boox Mira, E Ink VB3300-NCD
You can tolerably watch video so somewhere north of 20fps but there’s ghosting. A friendly button on the front of the display is there to do a hard refresh if the artifacts build up too much. But yes I should do a comparison on how different desktop environments do, with animations turned off etc, scrolling that jumps line by line like vim or eMacs will work better than smooth scrolling for instance.
Re: VitruvianOS – Desktop Linux Inspired by the BeOS
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
And much better option, running the real deal, instead of some compatibility layer.
Presumably there's a lot more modern software written for Linux which you'd end up running through a compatibility layer from Haiku? The better option seems relative. I could be misremembering how Linux programmes are handled on Haiku though.
In Haiku windowing system, each app window gets its own thread so dialog boxes run in a different thread to the main window and a different thread to the core app. In Linux, all windows share the same message loop thread. A simple port reveals threading issues in Haiku which dont exist on Linux.
To work around this, all window messages in ported apps are marshalled to execute sequentially. Small additional overhead, and the system doesnt spread available threads, so noticably slower.
Compare a native Haiku app with a ported app, one is smooth as ice while the other isnt. Users notice it. This is on many core systems.
Re: VitruvianOS – Desktop Linux Inspired by the BeOS
#220I bought an Amiga in the early 90's and enjoyed it immensely. Commodore went under and Amiga died. I bought BeOS in the late 90's and enjoyed it immensely like a breath of fresh air in a sewage pipe. BeOS died. With my track record I really, really should've bought Windows. Twice, to make sure.
I'm too young to remember BeOS but I've taken a superficial look at Haiku and I don't get the hype. What made BeOS so special? How is it different from GNU/Linux or BSDs?
There is absolutely nothing special about BeOS compared with any of the modern alternatives that you list, or Windows and macOS for that matter.
But this was 1995. Linux (or BSD) on the desktop didn’t really exist, Apple’s OS was System 7.5, Microsoft’s was Windows 95. BeOS was a preemptively multitasking, multimedia operating system, with a transactional file system. Nothing else like it existed, at that time.