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Apple randomly closes bug reports unless you "verify" the bug remains unfixed

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Re: Apple randomly closes bug reports unless you "verify" the bug remains unfixed

#41

Post by willdr »

eminence32 wrote: post #16

I recognize that this is annoying from a user perspective, but I do understand it. Not all bugs are easily reproducible (and even if they are 100% reproducible for the user, it's not always so easy for the developers). Also sometimes you make a change to the code that you think might be in a related area, and so sometimes the most "efficient" thing is just to ask the user to re-test. When I close an old bug that is n…

How is that worse? Leaving it open signals to anyone searching about it that's it's still an issue of concern. It will show up in filters for active bugs, etc. Closing it without fixing it just obfuscates the situation. It costs nothing (except pride?) to leave "Issues (1)" if there is indeed an Issue.

Re: Apple randomly closes bug reports unless you "verify" the bug remains unfixed

#42

Post by Barbing »

eszed wrote: post #29
methodical wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically every single old bug report I've ever seen is essentially a red-herring that is usually not able to be reproduced anymore after N years and takes away time from focusing on newer and more solvable issues. I don't see the issue with removing that noise if it's no longer being reported, but to each their own I suppose.

Sure. So try to reproduce on a current build, and close with a "No longer reproduceable on ___". That'd be good practice. Closing silently because no one can be bothered to evaluate at all is horrendous, and creates the user expectation that "no one looks at these, so I'm not going to keep reporting it" which "justifies" developers closing old bugs.

>creates the user expectation that "no one looks at these

Apple has done the best job of creating this expectation.

Apple Feedback = compliments (and ideas)

Public Web = complaints & bug reports

Apple Support = important bug reports (can create feedback first then call immmediately)

—

Prev comment w/link (2mo ago): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46591541

Re: Apple randomly closes bug reports unless you "verify" the bug remains unfixed

#43

Post by gortok »

jlarocco wrote: post #13
gortok wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was literally just coming in here to comment "in before someone says this is fine and there's no issue." and the first(!) comment is effectively "this is fine and there's no issue." The sentiment feels like software folks are optimizing for the local optimum. It's the programmer equivalent of "if it's important they'll call back." while completely ignoring the real world first and second-order effects of such a pol…

Considering Apple is one of the largest companies in the world, raking in money, what consequential effects are you talking about? It certainly doesn't seem to hurt their bottom line, which is the only thing they care about. As a software developer, I don't have any problem with this. If a bug doesn't bother somebody enough for them to follow up, then spend time fixing bugs for people who will. Apple isn't obligated…

> It certainly doesn't seem to hurt their bottom line, which is the only thing they care about.

I want to draw out this comment because it's so antithetical to what Apple marketed that it stood for (if you remember, the wonderful 1984 commercial Apple created; which was very much against the big behemoths of the day and the way they operated).

We're at the point where we've normalized crappy behavior and crappy software so long as the bottom line keeps moving up and to the right on the graph.

Not, "Let's build great software that people love.", but "How much profit can we squeeze out? Let's try to squeeze some more."

We've optimized for profit instead of happiness and customer satisfaction. That's why it feels like quality in general is getting worse, profit became the end goal, not the by-product of a customer-centric focus. We've numbed ourselves to the pain and discomfort we endure and cause every single day in the name of profit.

Re: Apple randomly closes bug reports unless you "verify" the bug remains unfixed

#44

Post by Leherenn »

freediddy wrote: post #23

Author must not have worked in enterprise software before. That's a classic trick where the developer will push back on the bug author and say "I can't reproduce this, can you verify it with the latest version?" without actually doing anything. And if it doesn't get confirmed then they can close it as User Error or Not Reproducible. Of course, the only way to counter this is by saying "Yes I verified it" without actu…

From experience with Microsoft (paid) support (after doing 5 tickets because it's never the right team and apparently moving tickets internally is for losers), they will ask for proof of the reproduction. And they will take every opportunity to shift the blame ("Oh I can see in the log you're running an antivirus, open a ticket with them. Closed").

Re: Apple randomly closes bug reports unless you "verify" the bug remains unfixed

#46

Post by lxgr »

integralid wrote: post #37
torben-friis wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen this in many teams and it always drives me nuts: "hey this ticket is old and we didn't bother, let's delete it to keep the board clean". You feeling accomplished by seeing an empty list is not the goal!

Feeling overwhelmed by insurmountable mountain of bugs and issues is not the way either. We can argue that closing the tickets is not the best way, but if realistically nobody will ever look at them, why not make the developers feel better.

Move them to a deficated status. “Never triaged”, “lost”, “won’t do”, what have you.

That way, you’re at least not deluding yourself about your own capacity to triage and fix problems, and can hopefully search for and reopen issues that are resurfaced.

Re: Apple randomly closes bug reports unless you "verify" the bug remains unfixed

#48

Post by _blk »

The replies here suggest that many of us have been on both sides and that Apple's behavior it's a great way to trade bug triaging time on the org side for a few frustrated reporters on the customer side. The problem is it frustrates the most diligent of bug reporters who put time into filing high quality issues resulting in overall lower bug submission quality.

A good compromise might be select high quality bugs or users with good rep and disable auto-closing for them. In the age of AI it shouldn't be too hard to correlate all those low quality duplicates and figure out what's worth keeping alive, no?

Re: Apple randomly closes bug reports unless you "verify" the bug remains unfixed

#49

Post by gjvc »

stefan_ wrote: post #3

My favorite is the Claude Code bugtracker, on GitHub of course: https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues There is some bot that will match your issue to some other 3 vaguely related issue, then auto close in 3 days. The other vaguely related issues are auto closed for inactivity. Nothing is ever fixed, which is why they can't keep the thing from messing with your scroll position for years now.

this scroll position thing is mentally damaging

Re: Apple randomly closes bug reports unless you "verify" the bug remains unfixed

#50

Post by detourdog »

gortok wrote: post #7
cozzyd wrote: post #2

to be fair this is pretty common spring cleaning in any bugzilla...

I was literally just coming in here to comment "in before someone says this is fine and there's no issue." and the first(!) comment is effectively "this is fine and there's no issue." The sentiment feels like software folks are optimizing for the local optimum. It's the programmer equivalent of "if it's important they'll call back." while completely ignoring the real world first and second-order effects of such a pol…

I have been on the other side where I can't replicate/verfiy and the think the user would tell me if it was fixed. After exhausting myself and contacting the user only to find out it was resolved.
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