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Thoughts on slowing the fuck down

mariozechner.at

251–260 of 505 posts

Re: Thoughts on slowing the fuck down

#251
Just yesterday I was discussing many of the ideas presented here with a coworker. I had just walked out of a workshop led by $BIGTECHCOMPANY where someone presented the following toy example:

A service goes down. He tells the agent to debug it and fix it. The agent pulls some logs from $CLOUDPROVIDER, inspects the logs, produces a fix and then automatically updates a shared document with the postmortem.

This got me thinking that it's very hard to internalize both issue and solution -updating your model of the system involved- because there is not enough friction for you to spend time dealing with the problem (coming up with hypotheses, modifying the code, writing the doc). I thought about my very human limitation of having to write things down in paper so that I can better recall them.

Then I recalled something I read years ago: "Cars have brakes so they can go fast."

Even assuming it is now feasible to produce thousands of lines of quality code, there is a limitation on how much a human can absorb and internalize about the changes introduced to a system. This is why we will need brakes -- so we can go faster.

Re: Thoughts on slowing the fuck down

#252
> There were precursors like Aider and early Cursor, but they were more assistant than agent.

I use Aider on my private computers and Copilot at work. Both feel equally powerful when configured with a decent frontier model. Are they really generations apart? What am I missing?

Re: Thoughts on slowing the fuck down

#253

What the article doesn't touch on is the vendor lock-in that is currently underway. Many corps are now moving to an AI-based development process that is reliant on the big AI providers. Once the codebase has become fully agentic, i.e., only agents fundamentally understand it and can modify it, the prices will start rising. After all, these loss making AI companies will eventually need to recoup on their investments.…

> the prices will start rising. After all, these loss making AI companies will eventually need to recoup on their investments. I would bet a lot of money that the price of LLM assistance will go down, not up, as the hardware and software advance. Every genre-defining startup seems to go through this same cycle where the naysayers tell us that it's all going to collapse once the investment money runs out. This was def…

> Oil is a finite resource that comes out of the ground

Yes but the chips, hardware, copper cables, silicon and all the rest of the components that make up a server are finite. Unless these magically appear from outer space, we'll face the same resource constraints as everything else that is pulled out of the ground.

These components are also far more fragile to source, see COVID and the collapse of global supply chains. Also the factories to create these components are expensive to build and fragile to maintain. See the Dutch company that seems to be the sole supply of certain manufacturing skills.[1]

> I would bet a lot of money that the price of LLM assistance will go down, not up, as the hardware and software advance.

My bet would be that it would fuel the profits of AI companies and not make the price of AI come down. Over supply makes price come down but if supply is kept artificially low, then prices stay high.

That's the comparison to OPEC and oil. There is plenty of oil to go around yet the supply is capped and thereby prices kept high. There is no guarantee that savings in hardware or supply will be passed on by AI corps.

Indeed there is no guarantee that there will be serious competition in the market, OPEC is a monopoly so why not have an AI monopoly? At the moment, all major players in AI are based in the same geopolitical sphere, making a monopoly more likely, IMHO.

In the end, it's all speculation what will happen. It just depends on which fairy tail one believes in.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASML_Holding

Re: Thoughts on slowing the fuck down

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The last 10 years in the software industry in particular seems full of meta-work. Building new frameworks, new tools, new virtualization layers, new distributed systems, new dev tooling, new org charts. All to build... what exactly? Don't forget App Stores. Everyone's still trying to build app stores, even if they have nothing to sell in them. It's almost as if every major company's actual product is their stock pr…

> It's almost as if every major company's actual product is their stock price. They are pretty much legally obligated to act in this manner.

Has it always been this way? If not, did it used to be better? If so, how can we get back?

Re: Thoughts on slowing the fuck down

#255

What the article doesn't touch on is the vendor lock-in that is currently underway. Many corps are now moving to an AI-based development process that is reliant on the big AI providers. Once the codebase has become fully agentic, i.e., only agents fundamentally understand it and can modify it, the prices will start rising. After all, these loss making AI companies will eventually need to recoup on their investments.…

Code is so low entropy that smaller and more economical models will be up to the task the same as gigantic models from big providers are today.

No worries there, the huge improvements we see today from GPT and Claude, are at their heart just Reinforcement Learning (CoT, chain of thought and thinking tokens are just one example of many). RL is the cheapest kind of training one can perform, as far as I understand. Please correct me if that's not the case.

In the economy the invisible hand manages to produce everything cheaper and better all the time, but in the digital space the open source invisible hand makes everything completely free.

Re: Thoughts on slowing the fuck down

#256

> Companies claiming 100% of their product's code is now written by AI consistently put out the worst garbage you can imagine. Not pointing fingers, but memory leaks in the gigabytes, UI glitches, broken-ass features, crashes One thing about the old days of DOS and original MacOS: you couldn't get away with nearly as much of this. The whole computer would crash hard and need to be rebooted, all unsaved work lost. You…

I think you're just recalling the few software products that were actually good. There was plenty of crap software that would crash and lose your work in the old days.

I always found it funny how Word on Window 3.1/95 would have a day dream moment and just completely lock up, usually when you were about to save the document

I still save stuff every few minutes out of habits formed in the 90s.

Old DOS stuff could either be a total nightmare or some of the most brilliant code you had ever seen. Thats just the way having no giard rails goes.

Re: Thoughts on slowing the fuck down

#257
post #6

I think the core idea here is a good one. But in many agent-skeptical pieces, I keep seeing this specific sentiment that “agent-written code is not production-ready,” and that just feels… wrong! It’s just completely insane to me to look at the output of Claude code or Codex with frontier models and say “no, nothing that comes out of this can go straight to prod — I need to review every line.” Yes, there are still iss…

You sound like you are working on unimportant stuff. Sure, go ahead, push.

Honestly a lot of useful software is ‘unimportant’ in the sense that the consequences of introducing a bug or bad code smell aren’t that significant, and can be addressed if needed. It might well be for many projects the time saved not reviewing is worth dealing with bugs that escape testing. Also, it’s entirely possible for software to be both well engineered and useless.

Re: Thoughts on slowing the fuck down

#258
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe they are. Call yourself an Engineer without a degree and your company and you will be sued with a big fine, because here you must be legally accountable on disasters and ofc there are hard constraints .

> In Europe they are Where specifically? I've been working as a "Software engineer" for multiple decades, across three countries in Europe, and 2-3 countries outside of Europe, never been sued or received a "big fine" for this, even have had presentations for government teams and similar, not a single person have reacted to me (or others) calling ourselves "software engineers" this whole time.

In Germany. I have a degree in mechanical engineering and am thus allowed to call myself an engineer, even though I write software professionally. Colleagues who have studied computer science cannot, as it is not considered an engineering, but a science degree. This is why most people talk about "software developers" and not about "software engineers" (in German) to avoid this problem. That being said, most people would not actually care.

Re: Thoughts on slowing the fuck down

#259
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think is a valid doomer warning that came true? Or do you think literally everything that is pessimistic is doomerism?

You're asking the wrong person. I haven't seen a single example of a doomer warning that came true. Can you provide one? It seems like society still exists when I look out the window and the impact that doomers assert are greatly exaggerated in every instance.

So are disingenuous or just stupid? Of course society exists still, but what society?

Only the very dumbest think “doom” is some apocalyptic scene from a Hollywood film in which humans are nearly wiped out.

“Doom” is instead when swaths of Roman citizens with rights amidst a powerful, civically and technologically impressive hegemony, over time find themselves reduced to unfree serfs. They and their descendants would remain in that position for centuries until a horrific disease came through and killed so many of them that the serfdom became untenable.

Re: Thoughts on slowing the fuck down

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CO2 concentration continues to climb year after year, at an accelerating rate. The world hasn't ended yet because it's still 2026 but it doesn't mean it won't. We're on a hothouse earth trajectory. All signs point to you not being aware of serious climate research and hanging on to a naive Steven Pinker "everything is always improving" outlook.

> The world hasn't ended yet because it's still 2026 but it doesn't mean it won't. All signs point to you being a doomer that is excellent at moving the goal post. "If it doesn't happen tomorrow surely it will happen the next day." You can do this until the end of time. A waste of brain cycles for anybody with a real job. This is the exact same pattern for every single kind of doomer and they are all wrong in the exa…

>If doomers were good at predicting these events and how it will play out they'd all be rich as hell, but no, they are for the most part a bunch of broke whiners.

Oh, the classic "if you're so smart then why aren't you rich" non argument. I'm sure Carl Sagan was a just whiny loser because he didn't figure out how to become a billionaire from knowing how physics works. His prediction that the planet would warm several degrees by the mid to late 21st century failed to reward him what he was owed. By the way we haven't even gotten halfway there yet, so your "shifting goalposts" thesis is null.

People who push dangerous neoliberal propaganda like carbon capture or "infinite growth on a finite planet is possible" on the other hand do get very rich, and they don't even need to make good predictions. Such is the planet governed by pedophiles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp-WiNXH6hI

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