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Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

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Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#311

Post by amoss »

zem wrote: post #82
adelmotsjr wrote: post #5

Reading these posts always make me feel like an imposter. People are dealing with such low level things, while i'm outta here building simple CRUDs.

I work on compilers, and have bounced several times off trying to write my own full stack crud app for a personal project (tried doing it in rails, phoenix and django at various times). I'm finally getting somewhere with claude's help, but it really is its own set of skills - easy to get started with but hard to do well.

You may be surprised by how much easier it is to dump the framework/stack and just write it from scratch. I say this because I too work on compilers and have a crud app as a personal project. The first versions were a nightmare in various frameworks and since I switched to a C++ backend / vanilla .js frontend it has been incredibly easy to write.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#313

Post by ErroneousBosh »

ACS_Solver wrote: post #162
computomatic wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I avoided using Wine (and Linux for gaming generally) for years on the sole basis that I assumed what they were trying to do was impossible to do well. Occasionally I’d try wine for some simple game and be impressed it worked at all, but refused to admit to myself that it was something I could rely on. (This was many years ago and I freely admit today that I was wrong.)

Valve's Proton (so Wine + DXVK + some other additions) revolutionized gaming on Linux. I play games both for fun and work, and for a solid 3+ years now, gaming on Linux has been an "it just works" experience for me, and should be for most games that don't use kernel-level anticheat.

> and should be for most games that don't use kernel-level anticheat.

It actually gives a far better user experience for games like Battlefield 6, because on Linux they just don't work at all. Try it for yourself - it won't even start!

By contrast if you run Battlefield 6 on Windows, eventually you'll end up playing it, and you'll wish you hadn't. It's a shitty buggy mess and you'll hate it.

So, notch up another score for Linux!

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#314

Post by hnarn »

BatteryMountain wrote: post #309

Steam devs if you are reading this: add a checkbox on your checkout screen that will allow me to donate 10% or a flat amount with each purchase, that will go directly to your upstream opensource dependencies like Wine & friends. I would add money to each purchase without blinking to support these people and I think the correct place for this is at the steam checkout screen, in the case for gamers.

This is a nice idea, but how do you follow through in practice? Who decides what counts as an "upstream dependency", where do you draw the line? Is the Linux kernel included? Are desktop environments included? How do you decide how much of the pot goes to each project, does curl get an equal amount to Wine? Why/why not?

As I said, it's a nice idea but I have a feeling the complexity behind making this work well is what might have kept them from doing it.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#315

Post by diath »

hu3 wrote: post #15

> Dirt 3 went from 110.6 FPS to 860.7 FPS > Resident Evil 2 jumped from 26 FPS to 77 FPS > Call of Juarez went from 99.8 FPS to 224.1 FPS > Tiny Tina's Wonderlands saw gains from 130 FPS to 360 FPS Amazing. I don't understand the low level details on how such a massive speed gain was ripe for the picking but I welcome! I guess thanks Valve for pouring money into Proton.

Read the last sentence in that paragraph, those numbers are a bit disingenuous:

> Those benchmarks compare Wine NTSYNC against upstream vanilla Wine, which means there's no fsync or esync either. Gamers who use fsync are not going to see such a leap in performance in most games.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#316

Post by anthk »

rescbr wrote: post #239
anthk wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything Direct Draw related will be mapped into OpenGL under Unix giving you decent speeds. On Windows it will be a crawling slideshow because from Windows 8 and up it will use a really dog slow software mode with no acceleration at all, worse than plain VESA. Yes, you can reuse WineD3D DLL's on Windows and run these game in a fast way, but not by default, it's a Win32 port of some Wine libraries.

Once I had to use a Mesa3D build for Windows and use the zink driver to render OpenGL to Vulkan, otherwise it would use Windows' software renderer.

I had to use WineD3D's ddraw.dll among another one to run these touch based arcade machine games with card games, Trivial Pursuit, hangman and the like. If not the game made for w98/2k would really lag even under an i3.

The same with some multimedia CD's from its day. Scummvm it's partially implementing Macromedia Director support but the mentioned game had a custom engine. The Scummvm devs would RE in few weeks (it's a simple 2D game bundle, nothing difficult, with virtually no animations, almost everything it's still images) but no one began yet.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#317

Post by zem »

amoss wrote: post #311
zem wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work on compilers, and have bounced several times off trying to write my own full stack crud app for a personal project (tried doing it in rails, phoenix and django at various times). I'm finally getting somewhere with claude's help, but it really is its own set of skills - easy to get started with but hard to do well.

You may be surprised by how much easier it is to dump the framework/stack and just write it from scratch. I say this because I too work on compilers and have a crud app as a personal project. The first versions were a nightmare in various frameworks and since I switched to a C++ backend / vanilla .js frontend it has been incredibly easy to write.

interesting, how did you manage the db interactions in c++? and did you have a single executable for the app and the web server combined?

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#318

Post by hochmartinez »

BatteryMountain wrote: post #308
ACS_Solver wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valve's Proton (so Wine + DXVK + some other additions) revolutionized gaming on Linux. I play games both for fun and work, and for a solid 3+ years now, gaming on Linux has been an "it just works" experience for me, and should be for most games that don't use kernel-level anticheat.

Now if only Steam would add a checkbox on their checkout page to add 10% donation/tip that goes directly to their upstream opensource dependencies (like the Wine team), that would be amazing! I would add extra money on every purchase to support these people!

https://www.winehq.org/donate

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#319

Post by dkersten »

rowyourboat wrote: post #299
fock wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you rip out linux from your linux distribution you usually end up with GNU.

So, that would make this GNU/Windows

They could brand it as “New Windows”

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#320

Post by BatteryMountain »

hnarn wrote: post #314
BatteryMountain wrote: post #309

Steam devs if you are reading this: add a checkbox on your checkout screen that will allow me to donate 10% or a flat amount with each purchase, that will go directly to your upstream opensource dependencies like Wine & friends. I would add money to each purchase without blinking to support these people and I think the correct place for this is at the steam checkout screen, in the case for gamers.

This is a nice idea, but how do you follow through in practice? Who decides what counts as an "upstream dependency", where do you draw the line? Is the Linux kernel included? Are desktop environments included? How do you decide how much of the pot goes to each project, does curl get an equal amount to Wine? Why/why not? As I said, it's a nice idea but I have a feeling the complexity behind making this work well is wh…

So the steam devs can most likely produce a finite list of all their dependencies. They can then take a day or two to score each one with a weight. Then they use the weights to determine how to split the funds. Or they can have an open source champion person internally that takes care of relationships with opensource projects and can release funds to them as needed. Point is, lets say they accumulate $1M/year this way, it is that person's responsibility to distribute it fully back out to the community. Obviously try to keep it super simple & transparent. They can even ask game developers each quarter who they should think need money or which problems were solved well for them this round, as an extra layer of input.
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