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Data centers are transitioning from AC to DC

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: Data centers are transitioning from AC to DC

#3

Post by shdudns »

How is DC better than a three phase delta 800Vrms, at 400Hz?

- Three conductors vs two, but they can be the next gauge up since the current flows on three conductors

- no significant skin effect at 400Hz -> use speaker wire, lol.

- large voltage/current DC brakers are.. gnarly, and expensive. DC does not like to stop flowing

- The 400Hz distribution industry is massive; the entire aerospace industry runs on it. No need for niche or custom parts.

- 3 phase @ 400Hz is x6 = 2.4kHz. Six diodes will rectify it with almost no relevant amount of ripple (Vmin is 87% of Vmax) and very small caps will smooth it.

As an aside, with three (or more) phase you can use multi-tap transformers and get an arbitrary number of poles. 7 phases at 400Hz -> 5.6kHz. Your PSU is now 14 diodes and a ceramic cap.

- you still get to use step up/down transformers, but at 400Hz they're very small.

- merging power sources is a lot easier (but for the phase angle)

- DC-DC converters are great, but you're not going to beat a transformer in efficiency or reliability

Re: Data centers are transitioning from AC to DC

#6

Post by shiroiuma »

shdudns wrote: post #3

How is DC better than a three phase delta 800Vrms, at 400Hz? - Three conductors vs two, but they can be the next gauge up since the current flows on three conductors - no significant skin effect at 400Hz -> use speaker wire, lol. - large voltage/current DC brakers are.. gnarly, and expensive. DC does not like to stop flowing - The 400Hz distribution industry is massive; the entire aerospace industry runs on it. No ne…

>- no significant skin effect at 400Hz -> use speaker wire, lol.

What are you talking about? There's a very significant skin effect at 400Hz. Skin effect goes up with frequency. These datacenters use copper busbars, not cable, so skin effect is an important consideration.

Re: Data centers are transitioning from AC to DC

#7

Post by otterley »

DC power has been an option for datacenter equipment since I was a young lad racking and stacking hardware. Cisco, Dell, HPE, IBM, and countless others all had DC supply options. Same with PDUs. What’s old is new again.

See e.g. https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000221234/wiring-in...

Re: Data centers are transitioning from AC to DC

#8

Post by stego-tech »

I've been hearing this line for over a decade, now. "Immersion cooling will make data centers scale!" "Converting to DC at the perimeter increases density!"

Yes, of course both of those things are true, and yes, some data centers do engage in those processes for their unique advantages. The issue is that aside from specialty kit designed for that use (like the AWS Outposts with their DC conversion), the rank-and-file kit is still predominantly AC-driven, and that doesn't seem to be changing just yet.

While I'd love to see more DC-flavored kit accessible to the mainstream, it's a chicken-and-egg problem that neither the power vendors (APC, Eaton, etc) or the kit makers (Dell, Cisco, HP, Supermicro, etc) seem to want to take the plunge on first. Until then, this remains a niche-feature for niche-users deal, I wager.

Re: Data centers are transitioning from AC to DC

#9

Post by hristov »

It is absolutely stupid to talk about this as edisons revenge. If Tesla had the modern high power transistors needed to get high voltage dc out of the ac produced from a spinning turbine he would be all for high voltage dc too. Tesla understood that high voltage was needed for efficient long range transmission. He also understood that transformers were the inly remotely efficient way to climb up to and down from these high voltages. And transformers only work with ac. So he designed an ac system and even designed some better transformers for it.

If there was anything like a high power transistor back then he would have used that. High power transistors that are robust enough to handle the grid were designed inly recently over 100 years after the tesla/edison ac/dc argument.

Re: Data centers are transitioning from AC to DC

#10

Post by otterley »

stego-tech wrote: post #8

I've been hearing this line for over a decade, now. "Immersion cooling will make data centers scale!" "Converting to DC at the perimeter increases density!" Yes, of course both of those things are true, and yes, some data centers do engage in those processes for their unique advantages. The issue is that aside from specialty kit designed for that use (like the AWS Outposts with their DC conversion), the rank-and-file…

Those vendors all have DC power supply options, to my knowledge. It’s hardly new; early telco datacenters had DC power rails, since Western Electric switching equipment ran on 48VDC.

https://www.nokia.com/bell-labs/publications-and-media/publi...

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