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Epic Games to cut more than 1k jobs as Fortnite usage falls

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Re: Epic Games to cut more than 1k jobs as Fortnite usage falls

#151
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have ~5000 employees. Most game companies are a tiny fraction of that size. Even most AAA games are made by teams of hundreds. Not teams of thousands.

Epic Games does way more than just purely making games. They also have their own Steam competitor (Epic Games Store) and, more importantly, they develop and support Unreal Engine used by tons of other game dev companies. If you want an apples to apples comparison (i.e., other big live-service game companies) in terms of the employee count, you got: Mihoyo (Genshin Impact, Honkai Star Rail) - ~5,000-6,000 Riot Games (…

The game store doesn't need a lot of employees. A few years ago it was reported that Valve only needed about 70 employees to run Steam while it generated billions of dollars in Steam fees (30% per game). It's basically free money for Valve. I bet the situation is similar for the AppStore and Google Play.

Though Unreal Engine does indeed need quite a few developers. Additionally, using UE is much cheaper (5% on games exceeding 1 milion USD gross revenue) than using Steam (30% on every game). So they not only need more developers than Valve, they also earn less money.

Re: Epic Games to cut more than 1k jobs as Fortnite usage falls

#152

> "We're spending significantly more than we're making, and we have to make major cuts to keep the company funded," he said. Sorry, HOW?!? How can a company like Epic games with one of the most successful gaming products of the last few decades be losing money with a product that is so mature? Almost every other games developer would love to be in their position on Fortnite but they've somehow turned that into a loss…

The epic store with its giveaways and exclusivity deals is probably burning money.

So I guess they are finding out that running an app store isn't very profitable and dare I say suggests that the percentage Apple charges was not unjustified?

Re: Epic Games to cut more than 1k jobs as Fortnite usage falls

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Games are an obscenely, absurdly profitable industry. Particularly the successful ones.

Lottery is obscenely, absurdly profitable employment. Particularly for the ones who win it.

The person I was replying to is asserting that the winners of the metaphorical lottery are not in profitable employment, so you aren't making the point you think you're making.

Re: Epic Games to cut more than 1k jobs as Fortnite usage falls

#155

Roblox is the elephant in the room here which fills the niche for freemium, fun 3D experiences that run on basically any platform or device.

Can confirm. There are even growing numbers of high-quality games/projects on the platform (I explored it recently), including a fully interactive+realistic nuclear reactor and 1:1 DCS-like Airbus A320 simulator.

I suspect the popularity and ease of distribution/development on the platform makes it very attractive for developers with a dream.

Re: Epic Games to cut more than 1k jobs as Fortnite usage falls

#156

I am not Tim Sweeney's biggest fan. I know he and his company have many detractors. Please read this comment with that in mind, because while I don't love them, I also think that as layoff announcements go, this is good. No beating around the bush, explicitly NOT blaming AI, taking responsibility, taking care of those impacted. If you are gonna do it, this is as good as it can get. I think the reality is that Epic go…

You see this trap in tech companies as well as game studios. I call it "acting like Google before you're Google". And in fact virtually nobody becomes Google.

Google has been a money printing machine for 20+ years almost unparalleled in human history. That's allowed Google to write bespoke software for everything, which has been useful because almost nobody has Google's problems. It's also allowed Google to contribute a bunch to open source and engage in vanity projects. They can afford it.

Then you see the likes of Twitter a decade or more ago who dedicated possibly hundreds of engineers to make Cassandra work. That's doing Google shit. But they aren't Google. And eventually those chickens come home to roost.

Games are like any content business where the owners and leadership are trying to create a formula that can be repeated infinitely. Content business actually hate the creative people who make their content because creativity doesn't scale. This is why movie studios churn out sequels and superhero movies. It's a formula.

Games eventually fall out of favor as genres get stale and new genres get created. Minecraft is an almost unique exception to this. There's a reason it sold for ~$2 billion. It's still popular. It's crazy. But that kind of example is so incredibly rare you should assume it's never going to happen.

The hubris at Epic was that they could challenge the Apple and Google app store monopolies. They were wrong. And they wasted an extraordinary amount of time, money and opportunity chasing that. That was a strategic mistake, even though I agree with their philosophical position.

I'm reminded of id software. John Carmack was legendary for years. Wolfenstein was groundbreaking. So was Doom then Quake. But eventually (IMHO) id games ceased to be games but because tech demos to sell engine licenses before ultimately being acquired and swallowed.

I feel like Epic is the same with the Unreal Engine. Fortnite is a success while it's popular and people buy cosmetics but when that popularity wanes, they have a huge revenue problem.

Re: Epic Games to cut more than 1k jobs as Fortnite usage falls

#157

I am not Tim Sweeney's biggest fan. I know he and his company have many detractors. Please read this comment with that in mind, because while I don't love them, I also think that as layoff announcements go, this is good. No beating around the bush, explicitly NOT blaming AI, taking responsibility, taking care of those impacted. If you are gonna do it, this is as good as it can get. I think the reality is that Epic go…

At least they're doing severance, health insurance, etc. Nowadays if I got laid off at a company I'd expect to just find that my key didn't work and a "check's in the mail" letter to the wrong address.

Re: Epic Games to cut more than 1k jobs as Fortnite usage falls

#158
post #92

> "We're spending significantly more than we're making, and we have to make major cuts to keep the company funded," he said. Sorry, HOW?!? How can a company like Epic games with one of the most successful gaming products of the last few decades be losing money with a product that is so mature? Almost every other games developer would love to be in their position on Fortnite but they've somehow turned that into a loss…

Because games is simply not a particularly profitable industry. There's a reason why Valve moved on from making games to being a digital landlord.

I'm gonna need someone smarter than me to show me the numbers on that. Fornite by itself is insanely profitable.

Re: Epic Games to cut more than 1k jobs as Fortnite usage falls

#159
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortnite alone is estimated to produce more than five billion USD in annual revenue every year since 2018

Every year the licensing fees add up as they add more collaborations, while revenue is not rising to match.

They didn't need to do any of that by the way.

Re: Epic Games to cut more than 1k jobs as Fortnite usage falls

#160
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't losing money on Fortnite, they're losing money on vanity projects like the Epic Game Store where they spend tens of millions of dollars for exclusivity deals with developers, and give away free games to try to poach Steam users with an otherwise inferior product. Unfortunately it is their employees that are paying the price of leadership making it rain with their overflowing coffers they couldn't help but…

It's still funny to me that they would rather burn 9 figures in cash on these silly deals to try and 'trap' gamers on their platform instead of just... I don't know... making a better platform? The reason nobody competes with Steam is simply the sheer number of integration and platform features that make it easy to buy, play and share games with my friends. It's not that hard, stop trying to 'force' me to use your pl…

> Just make it a nice experience.

Haven’t you been paying attention? That’s not how we do things in business anymore…

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