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Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

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Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#81

Post by mkl »

alex_duf wrote: post #61
wewewedxfgdf wrote: post #39

Windows 11 should run on ANY PC. I am customer and I absolutely hate it that they have restricted the machine that Windows can run on. If they don't fix this sort of anti customer garbage then all their words are pure horseshit.

have you thought about switching to another OS?

Unfortunately Linux doesn't run well on my Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (which is perfectly functional other than the lack of Windows security updates). I'm very unlikely to buy or recommend a Microsoft computer again, even though I liked the hardware.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#82

Post by jacquesm »

jeppester wrote: post #51
Macha wrote: post #7

It’s quite common for companies to work their way up to the line of the most user hostile version of their product that users will tolerate. Especially with software where they can just go flip a switch and turn off whatever feature did cross the line but keep everything they gained by inching up to the line, which seems to inevitably result in things like the condition of windows 11. I think the only way this gets b…

The only way this get better is if the user gets to choose between an OS with ads, lock-in, telemetry etc. and then one with none of that. As it is now, buying a laptop in a store is a "pick your poison" situation.

What bugged me for years is that I ended up paying the microsoft or apple tax that way. In the end I figured out a more efficient way around that than any of the rebates/refunds: just buy second hand hardware. Someone else paid for and used the windows license, I just need the box.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#84

Post by GuB-42 »

ptero wrote: post #11

Microsoft lost its way much earlier than 4 years ago. It abused users at the time of Netscape wars and forcing Internet Explorer down people's throats. But they hit an infinite gold mine with government adoption and for the last 30 years no amount of bad engineering was able to shake off government use. Windows 11 is bad? Yes, but did you try Microsoft Teams? The only way to force Microsoft into "users matter" engine…

We could say that Microsoft never lost its way in that regard, it has always been predatory.

Where it lost its way however is Microsoft actually cared about Windows, it was their flagship product after all. It was terrible in some aspects, but also excellent in some others. I particular, they took compatibility very seriously, which is far from an easy task in the wild PC ecosystem. They were also quite good in the UI/UX department. The Office suite was unmatched too, I tried a few alternative, none of them came close.

Now, they completely broke their UI/UX, and that's not just the ads, forced Copilot stuff, etc... It is pure incompetence. They still have good compatibility, but it is not as impressive of a feat as it once was, as apps today are naturally more portable because of all the abstraction layers (performance be damned, but that's another story). The traditional Office suite is still good, but they are in the process of sabotaging it with web-based apps that remove tons of features without actually simplifying anything.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#85

Post by Draiken »

baq wrote: post #22
Macha wrote: post #7

It’s quite common for companies to work their way up to the line of the most user hostile version of their product that users will tolerate. Especially with software where they can just go flip a switch and turn off whatever feature did cross the line but keep everything they gained by inching up to the line, which seems to inevitably result in things like the condition of windows 11. I think the only way this gets b…

> It’s quite common for companies to work their way up to the line of the most user hostile version of their product that users will tolerate. this is in general how the market for pretty much everything works (sometimes 'users' are replaced by 'the regulator', but it doesn't matter too much). lesson in there is 'majority of users don't care nearly as much as you think', usually.

I don't think "care" is the right word here at all. We simply don't have options.

This is capitalism's biggest flaw: it's based on the assumption that there will be competition, but competition eventually leads to winners that then consolidate their positions and we end up with no real choices.

You're telling me people would pick a worse OS because they don't care even if they had real options? I don't believe that for a second.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#86

Post by mexicocitinluez »

tremon wrote: post #64
mexicocitinluez wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blaming React is absurd. Its like blaming the screwdriver instead of the person using it.

I too would absolutely blame a plumber for trying to fix my leaking pipes with a screwdriver instead of e.g. a solder patch. Not everything is a screw, not even in the developing world.

lol Blame the plumber then.

"Infecting with screwdrivers" now see how dumb that sounds?

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#88

Post by mexicocitinluez »

etiennebausson wrote: post #59
mexicocitinluez wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blaming React is absurd. Its like blaming the screwdriver instead of the person using it.

He isn't blaming React (or Copilot), but those who used them in context they had no place in.

"developers with infecting then with React" is 100% blaming React

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#89

Post by BLKNSLVR »

throwa356262 wrote: post #46
ptero wrote: post #11

Microsoft lost its way much earlier than 4 years ago. It abused users at the time of Netscape wars and forcing Internet Explorer down people's throats. But they hit an infinite gold mine with government adoption and for the last 30 years no amount of bad engineering was able to shake off government use. Windows 11 is bad? Yes, but did you try Microsoft Teams? The only way to force Microsoft into "users matter" engine…

Am I the only one who prefers Teams to the Slack and Zoom? The ability to write in the meeting chat before and after a meeting for example. That is some serious quality of life function that all others are lacking.

Yes, and you are wrong.

Objectively.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#90

Post by tremon »

ptero wrote: post #11

Microsoft lost its way much earlier than 4 years ago. It abused users at the time of Netscape wars and forcing Internet Explorer down people's throats. But they hit an infinite gold mine with government adoption and for the last 30 years no amount of bad engineering was able to shake off government use. Windows 11 is bad? Yes, but did you try Microsoft Teams? The only way to force Microsoft into "users matter" engine…

It's a bit baffling to me that people are talking about Microsoft "losing their way" as if they ever operated differently. They have always been user-hostile if it increased next quarter's outlook. There's a clear continuing thread from the Halloween files in the 90s via antitrust probes in the 00s, the handling of Skype and Teams in the 10s, and now Copilot -- and that's ignoring all the mishandling on the business side of things (e.g. forcing Dynamics cloud migrations, Power Platform in a permanent state of unworthiness, the customary rug pulling via user license changes, constantly renaming products).

Microsoft being good to their customers is the anomaly, not the other way around.

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