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You are not your job

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Re: You are not your job

#161

Post by throwawaygod »

helloplanets wrote: post #153
abcde666777 wrote: post #122

Being able to see ourselves as something beyond our job (our means of survival) is a luxury. If a person can't provide for themselves the rest goes out the window fast. The only way to ease the anxiety in people isn't with fluff about their 'human worth', but rather to help them envision other tangible and plausible ways in which they can provide for themselves. The cold reality, in my opinion, is that the things we…

> We are in fact very disposable and replaceable. To your friends and family as well? Or just your employer? You're describing things that may well be true for a lot of employers, but fall apart outside of that context.

That may be true for a lot of families and friends as well. They may not dispose you outright but they will try to cut you off every chance they get.

Re: You are not your job

#162

Post by ainiriand »

Since the beginning of human history, people have always defined themselves by what they contribute to the group; a hunter, a farmer, a king... Today is no different. We may not be our job, but that is how others see us at first. They are not trying to get to know you; they just want to know where you fit, so they know how to deal with you. Only later, if things get personal, might they become interested in you as a person.

Re: You are not your job

#163

Post by firecall »

ainiriand wrote: post #162

Since the beginning of human history, people have always defined themselves by what they contribute to the group; a hunter, a farmer, a king... Today is no different. We may not be our job, but that is how others see us at first. They are not trying to get to know you; they just want to know where you fit, so they know how to deal with you. Only later, if things get personal, might they become interested in you as a…

> Since the beginning of human history

You have that backwards though! :-)

We'd get to know people in our community, often because they were born in to it, then we'd fit in to productive roles.

The way we do it these days is a recent, post industrial revolution, mode of society.

Re: You are not your job

#164

Post by ludston »

I agree with this article fully, but there is a problem that most blog posts about identity don't talk about before telling you what do with your own. What is identity actually for? This is the only article I know of that talks about this:

https://danielkeogh.com/blog/post/On%20not%20being%20miserab...

Re: You are not your job

#165

Post by i_am_a_peasant »

firecall wrote: post #163
ainiriand wrote: post #162

Since the beginning of human history, people have always defined themselves by what they contribute to the group; a hunter, a farmer, a king... Today is no different. We may not be our job, but that is how others see us at first. They are not trying to get to know you; they just want to know where you fit, so they know how to deal with you. Only later, if things get personal, might they become interested in you as a…

> Since the beginning of human history You have that backwards though! :-) We'd get to know people in our community, often because they were born in to it, then we'd fit in to productive roles. The way we do it these days is a recent, post industrial revolution, mode of society.

Nah I think this paradigm already exists when city states form and you no longer live in a village where everyone knows everyone

Re: You are not your job

#166

Post by Animats »

musicale wrote: post #99

> You are not your job. You're a person first. Your ability to connect, be present, and make people feel understood is what makes you irreplaceable to the people around you, which is the only market that counts. True, but losing your job is still a big deal. It often means that you lose your income, your health insurance (in the US at least), many (if not most) of your daily interactions with other people, and your s…

> > My technical skills are being disrupted by machines - that's fine I'll go do other things.

> As others have noted, it's great to not actually need the paycheck you are working for.

Um. Yes. There's a link on "other things". It's to a site for a bike tour. The author seems to be implying they don't really need a job.

I still remember hearing a group of homeless people near the cable car turntable at Powell and Market in SF talking about the days when they used to be printers. That was, for several hundred years, a stable, well-paying job.

Re: You are not your job

#167

Post by NalNezumi »

>The capacity to be fully present with another person, to see them not as a role they're playing but as a whole human being… that cannot be automated away and hopefully never will.

I agree but I don't hold such a positive view of the result of this (anymore) as the author do.

(I think?) in the book The End of Burnout, an argument is put forward about how our change in work culture is contributing to burnout. One aspect of it being that with the service economy, part of the value we provide in return for salary is not just our skills but a pleasant "persona". In previous times, our work used to be less socially oriented: farmers farm, craftmans craft, factory workers do line work. Social interaction happened ofc but wasn't as much the core for many professions. With increased automation, the social component got more important. These days it's not even surprising for many craftmans to also work close to customers or other group of people in an organization, increasing the number of interactions you need to manage by order of magnitude. You're also expected to be socially professional, "pleasant" as the article points. You're supposed to act graciously when your customers demand the impossible, or your manager doesn't understand the problem at hand. Leave your emotions, personality, and completely valid thoughts at the company main entrance: here you be a "pleasant professional".

Combined it with another trend: the onus for productivity increase is on the worker and not the employer, as it used to be in the factory floor (productivity increased with improved system, not individual effort). I think this point was from Byumg chul Han, and I can see that with the onus on productivity increase being on the worker, in a "be pleasant" job it will be more and more "sacrifice your true self to be maximum pleasant" and the result will be a horribly burnt out society.

So the authors prediction is rather dystopian. A workplace that focus on pleasantness with a detachment to meritocratic conditions will also inevitably converge to squashing of diverse thought and getting stuck in their heads.

Re: You are not your job

#168

Post by atmosx »

ainiriand wrote: post #162

Since the beginning of human history, people have always defined themselves by what they contribute to the group; a hunter, a farmer, a king... Today is no different. We may not be our job, but that is how others see us at first. They are not trying to get to know you; they just want to know where you fit, so they know how to deal with you. Only later, if things get personal, might they become interested in you as a…

Where I live, when meeting ppl they don’t introduce by asking “so what do you do?”, instead the phrasing is somewhat akin to “what do you spent your time on”. Even though they mean “what is your profession”, it allows me to stir the discussion to “what I like” or what kind of subject I enjoy discussing at that time eg philosophy, theatre, books, etc.

Re: You are not your job

#169

Post by atmosx »

abcde666777 wrote: post #122

Being able to see ourselves as something beyond our job (our means of survival) is a luxury. If a person can't provide for themselves the rest goes out the window fast. The only way to ease the anxiety in people isn't with fluff about their 'human worth', but rather to help them envision other tangible and plausible ways in which they can provide for themselves. The cold reality, in my opinion, is that the things we…

True. But tbh, you can find ppl making time for themselves or not, in most salary ranges. Extreme poverty is another issue ofc. That’s why we have social welfare, to avoid extreme poverty.

Re: You are not your job

#170

Post by atmosx »

throwawaygod wrote: post #161
helloplanets wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are in fact very disposable and replaceable. To your friends and family as well? Or just your employer? You're describing things that may well be true for a lot of employers, but fall apart outside of that context.

That may be true for a lot of families and friends as well. They may not dispose you outright but they will try to cut you off every chance they get.

But it may not be true for family or of employers… so we are back to square one I suppose.
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