Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The future of version control

bramcohen.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 407 posts

Re: The future of version control

#11

Post by simonw »

ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #4

The key insight in the third sentence? > ... CRDTs for version control, which is long overdue but hasn’t happened yet Pijul happened and it has hundreds - perhaps thousands - of hours of real expert developer's toil put in it. Not that Bram is not one of those, but the post reads like you all know what.

I hadn't heard of Pijul. My first search took me to https://github.com/8l/pijul which hasn't been updated in 11 years, but it turns out that's misleading and the official repo at https://nest.pijul.com/pijul/pijul had a commit last month.

... and of course it is, because Pijul uses Pijul for development, not Git and GitHub!

Re: The future of version control

#12

Post by mikey-k »

radarsat1 wrote: post #5

Is it a good thing to have merges that never fail? Often a merge failure indicates a semantic conflict, not just "two changes in the same place". You want to be aware of and forced to manually deal with such cases. I assume the proposed system addresses it somehow but I don't see it in my quick read of this.

[flagged]

Re: The future of version control

#13

Post by lifeformed »

My issue with git is handling non-text files, which is a common issue with game development. git-lfs is okay but it has some tricky quirks, and you end up with lots of bloat, and you can't merge. I don't really have an answer to how to improve it, but it would be nice if there was some innovation in that area too.

Re: The future of version control

#14

Post by gnarlouse »

I think something like this needs to be born out of analysis of gradations of scales of teams using version control systems.

- What kind of problems do 1 person, 10 person, 100 person, 1k (etc) teams really run into with managing merge conflicts?

- What do teams of 1, 10, 100, 1k, etc care the most about?

- How does the modern "agent explosion" potentially affect this?

For example, my experience working in the 1-100 regime tells me that, for the most part, the kind of merge conflict being presented here is resolved by assigning subtrees of code to specific teams. For the large part, merge conflicts don't happen, because teams coordinate (in sprints) to make orthogonal changes, and long-running stale branches are discouraged.

However, if we start to mix in agents, a 100 person team could quickly jump into a 1000 person team, esp if each person is using subagents making micro commits.

It's an interesting idea definitely, but without real-world data, it kind of feels like this is just delivering a solution without a clear problem to assign it to. Like, yes merge-conflicts are a bummer, but they happen infrequently enough that it doesn't break your heart.

Re: The future of version control

#15

Post by idoubtit »

simonw wrote: post #11
ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #4

The key insight in the third sentence? > ... CRDTs for version control, which is long overdue but hasn’t happened yet Pijul happened and it has hundreds - perhaps thousands - of hours of real expert developer's toil put in it. Not that Bram is not one of those, but the post reads like you all know what.

I hadn't heard of Pijul. My first search took me to https://github.com/8l/pijul which hasn't been updated in 11 years, but it turns out that's misleading and the official repo at https://nest.pijul.com/pijul/pijul had a commit last month. ... and of course it is, because Pijul uses Pijul for development, not Git and GitHub!

The canonical website is https://pijul.org. The homepage has a link to the pijul source repository.

Re: The future of version control

#16

Post by jFriedensreich »

starts with “based on the fundamentally sound approach of using CRDTs for version control”. How on earth is crdt a sound base for a version control system? This makes no sense fundamentally, you need to reach a consistent state that is what you intended not what some crdt decided and jj shows you can do that also without blocking on merges but with first level conflicts that need to be resolved. ai and language aware merge drivers are helping so much here i really wonder if the world these “replace version control” projects were made for still exists at all.

Re: The future of version control

#17

Post by codethief »

simonw wrote: post #11
ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #4

The key insight in the third sentence? > ... CRDTs for version control, which is long overdue but hasn’t happened yet Pijul happened and it has hundreds - perhaps thousands - of hours of real expert developer's toil put in it. Not that Bram is not one of those, but the post reads like you all know what.

I hadn't heard of Pijul. My first search took me to https://github.com/8l/pijul which hasn't been updated in 11 years, but it turns out that's misleading and the official repo at https://nest.pijul.com/pijul/pijul had a commit last month. ... and of course it is, because Pijul uses Pijul for development, not Git and GitHub!

> I hadn't heard of Pijul

I'm surprised! Pijul has been discussed here on HN many, many times. My impression is that many people here were hoping that Pijul might eventually become a serious Git contender but these days people seem to be more excited about Jujutsu, likely because migration is much easier.

Re: The future of version control

#18

Post by jauntywundrkind »

In case the name doesn't jump out at you, this is Bram Cohen, inventory of Bittorrent. And Chia proof-of-storage (probably better descriptions available) cryptocurrency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bram_Cohen

It's not the same as capturing it, but I would also note that there are a wide wide variety of ways to get 3-way merges / 3 way diffs from git too. One semi-recent submission (2022 discussing a 2017) discussed diff3 and has some excellent comments (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31075608), including a fantastic incredibly wide ranging round up of merge tools (https://www.eseth.org/2020/mergetools.html).

However/alas git 2.35's (2022) fabulous zdiff3 doesn't seems to have any big discussions. Other links welcome but perhaps https://neg4n.dev/blog/understanding-zealous-diff3-style-git...? It works excellently for me; enthusiastically recommended!

Re: The future of version control

#19

Post by ulrikrasmussen »

The thing about how merges are presented seems orthogonal to how to represent history. I also hate the default in git, but that is why I just use p4merge as a merge tool and get a proper 4-pane merge tool (left, right, common base, merged result) which shows everything needed to figure out why there is a conflict and how to resolve it. I don't understand why you need to switch out the VCS to fix that issue.

Re: The future of version control

#20

Post by recursivecaveat »

radarsat1 wrote: post #5

Is it a good thing to have merges that never fail? Often a merge failure indicates a semantic conflict, not just "two changes in the same place". You want to be aware of and forced to manually deal with such cases. I assume the proposed system addresses it somehow but I don't see it in my quick read of this.

It says that merges that involve overlap get flagged to the user. I don't think that's much more than a defaults difference to git really. You could have a version of git that just warns on conflict and blindly concats the sides.
Post reply on HN