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Ghost — rethinking WordPress

john.onolan.org

211–220 of 236 posts

Re: Ghost — rethinking WordPress

#211
post #34

I'd almost like to see it go the other way. WordPress is a good blog, but a poor CMS choice for anything but the most basic of websites. I reckon the "66%" that use WordPress use it for personal sites or very small business sites (1-10 visitors a day) on shared hosting. There are huge sites using it, but they seem to be the exception that proves the rule. I cannot see why people use WordPress over the likes of Concre…

Because it's easy to develop for, can scale to be one of the top ten sites on the internet, and your users won't need training to use it. Now I'll be the first to tell people there are certain things that you should build from scratch, but the examples of what people build with WordPress can be pretty breathtaking even to me: http://wordpress.org/showcase/

Many other CMS's are easy to develop for. The "scalability" issue is true but as I'm aware none of the top ten sites use WordPress.

The point I disagree with the most is that users won't need training to use it. I hear this all the time with absolutely nothing to back it up, other than "I haven't trained a user to use it".

Well, I have, and the users for this company struggled a lot with how things will work. I've trained users on numerous scripts, including Umbraco, Sitecore, Concrete5 and bespoke CMS's and every one of the others were far easier to both sell to a client and train. Umbraco and Concrete5 are far better for users than WordPress.

Re: Ghost — rethinking WordPress

#212
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I think of the platonian ideal of a blog, it has comments. And Trackback or Pingbacks. A "blog" without them is just a website someone normally updates regularily. Of course, that can have its merits, but it's not a normal blog. And btw, I "need" comments in my blog. I like them, they add value to the articles and if an article results in a good discussion, to write him was instantly more worth it. How can you for…

A "normal blog"? That requires that one define normal, with a set of metrics, it also requires a set of websites to be analyzed. Should that set be all blogs hosted with WordPress or Blogger than yes, normal becomes having comments, because that's the default option. But, if you use a different set, say a group of people who use Jekyll or another static site generator, than normal turns into no comments. Do we includ…

How about following the definition you yourself picked?

>Although not a requirement, most good quality blogs are interactive, allowing visitors to leave comments and even message each other via GUI widgets on the blogs, and it is this interactivity that distinguishes them from other static websites.

Even with a reference to an academic paper and exactly what i said prior.

> You can't say that a "normal" blog has comments without defining those, you can't even define "normal" without defining the set.

I define the set. Easily. Take every site on this internet someone thinks is a blog and merge them to a default. You will have comments and ping/trackbacks (and PHP, probably).

You choosed an interesting example: Jekyll. There is that interesting motion that you can observe technical development to follow circles. Those new static site generators are on such a backward circle. As I was told, in those early times before Wordpress, it was common to use systems like this to generate the sites that resembled modern blogs. Then came Wordpress & Co, PHP-based dynamic blog-engines. With comments and ping/trackbacks. I'm pretty sure, like the wikipedia-entry you cited, there are enough definitions acknowledging that.

They became the archetypical implementation of a Blog for many years, just like the iPad clinges to the archetypical implementation of a tablet laid down by Star Trek and functional requirements.

The movement now to generate blogs as static sites is probably a reaction to the awful caching and ressource-usage of Wordpress or a reaction to the popularity of git.

> You use the term need, but imply want. Your blog has no commenting requisite, ...

Really not true. If I didn't have comments, my blog would almost certainly not exist anymore. Which qualifies as a need over a want.

> There are many people called bloggers who's sites don't have comments, Gruber's Daring Fireball, Marco Arment's blog for a few.

There are people sitting on a tree claiming to ride a horse. Gruber for example is so popular that almost every entry of his gets dicussed here. HN is his comment-area. And no, that doesn't refute my own argument that a typical blog has a comment-area, because he has one (HN) and the unknown average Blogger has one on its site, or he gets no discussion at all, making him an atypical pseudo-blogger.

> Plus, comments and all of the ping/trackbacks require some form of a database to run, even if it isn't your own database. Are you saying that a database is also a requisite for a site being considered a blog?

Yep, they don't follow the typical blog-design. Though you can of course have trackbacks with plain-file-blogs without a dedicated database. I assume you included that with "some form of database".

And careful with the generic serverpart required: pingbacks use a generic and stadnardized xmlrpc-call, trackbacks are nothing but a POST with defined parameters. Sure, additional work to implement, but that is true for everything you really do with a server.

----

Again: Depending on when you started coming in contact with blogs, and I argue still today, it is highly likely that almost every blog you visit has comments (sometimes deactivated, nonetheless the engine has them), has some form of ping/trackback-machanism. It is so common for a blog to have those mechanisms that they became essential for the distinguishing between a static site with constant updates and websites we call blogs.

Re: Ghost — rethinking WordPress

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think that "mobile responsiveness" was the "Holy Grail" of smart website design. Now, I've come to the conclusion that most modern mobile devices are completely capable of displaying the full version of most websites. Every time I use my iPhone to browse to Twitter or LinkedIn I'm taken away from the full site and to a silly "mobile" site that resembles the native app. If I wanted the native app. experience…

I really like the Dolphin browser on Android, partly because it lets you switch between mobile and "desktop" modes (lies in the agent string). I don't find I have to use desktop mode that often, but its really handy when its there.

You get that option in the native browser, though perhaps it's less fiddly in this "Dolphin".

Re: Ghost — rethinking WordPress

#214
post #34

I'd almost like to see it go the other way. WordPress is a good blog, but a poor CMS choice for anything but the most basic of websites. I reckon the "66%" that use WordPress use it for personal sites or very small business sites (1-10 visitors a day) on shared hosting. There are huge sites using it, but they seem to be the exception that proves the rule. I cannot see why people use WordPress over the likes of Concre…

I run a Wordpress blog hosted on a Micro EC2 instance capable of handling dozens of thousands of visitors every day.

Re: Ghost — rethinking WordPress

#215
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. Perhaps a Wordpress varient would allow for per-post CSS files. I haven't touched WP in a few years; does it have the equivalent of the Rails Asset Pipeline yet?

It's old but it still works fine, check out the Art Direction plugin: http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/art-direction/

I think is a newer, more recently updated plugin:

http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/per-post-scripts-and-sty...

Re: Ghost — rethinking WordPress

#216
A lot of people are saying that you can't really make any significant changes because that would make a lot of plugins and themes incompatible with it. Well I say, keep Wordpress as it is but create a new version and invite some of the most popular theme and plugin authors to create their most popular themes and plugins for it before 'Ghost' goes out to the masses. Once people see how great it is, others will follow.

I personally think this is a really good idea however, I wouldn't remove the comment system.

I'd like Wordpress to be more flexible than it already is. I see websites like The Verge and Polygon, how they have different styles for different kinds of posts. They create beautiful reviews, very magazine-esque, how it's supposed to be. Giving this amount of control the users would allow authors to be a lot more creative and create even more beautiful and better websites than ever before.

Re: Ghost — rethinking WordPress

#217

Question for photomatt if you're still reading this comment thread, and since it might be my only chance to get dialog with you. Are you considering any changes regards the stack, since many installations can have a issues with speed now (not intended as a criticism). So eg something like Postgres, or MongoDB even for the DB Backend?

Running WP.com, I'm very sensitive too the performance implications of our stack. A small percentage change in performance could mean the difference of racks of servers for us. At Automattic we've also had a peek behind the curtain of pretty much every high-scale WP installation out there. The vast majority of performance issues I've seen are not from something intrinsic to PHP or MySQL, but how people configure them…

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. This helps me understand the performance issues better. Thank you for making Wordpress what it is.

Re: Ghost — rethinking WordPress

#218

"People often say that WordPress is free as in speech, not as in beer" Do they? What do they mean? Can't you download the full, working source code of Wordpress anymore?

The point, if I understand correctly, is that WP is libre and nominally gratis, but it has become so complicated (and resource-heavy) since its conception as a blogging platform that it often costs real money to get it up and running satisfactorily. And there is a certain truth to that; it has, to an extent, become consultantware at industry scale, and often forces even "lightweight" personal sites onto more expensive hosting plans due to file loads, database hits and memory usage. There are "standard" plugins that can help a lot, but that's pretty much opaque to the typical non-technical end user, and it takes more than a passing knowledge of, say, HTML+CSS to style/theme a WP site. Free themes, which a user will often turn to after giving up on the idea of learning to write their own theme are often multiply base64-encoded (and just as often are ad-plagued and/or malware-harboring), and after being bitten once or twice, people resort to paying for themes or to have themes created for them. Not much, perhaps, but more than the "free" (gratis) software they thought they were buying into.

Re: Ghost — rethinking WordPress

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because it's a rough concept, and I wanted to put it out as quickly as possible rather than delaying by procrastinating about coding a layout. I actually stole got the idea for making it a big page of images from the original .Mail concept page. If there's interest - of course we could put something more professional (and machine readable) together!

Yeah, my retina display gave you away. Looked pretty bad. This isn't a dig on your images or design (I really liked the ideas and design for sure)—but out of curiosity, do you find image layout easier or more difficult than CSS? I ask because if I wanted to build something like this, I'd go straight for HTML/CSS not because it's proper but because it would be faster and easier.

[deleted]

Re: Ghost — rethinking WordPress

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because it's a rough concept, and I wanted to put it out as quickly as possible rather than delaying by procrastinating about coding a layout. I actually stole got the idea for making it a big page of images from the original .Mail concept page. If there's interest - of course we could put something more professional (and machine readable) together!

Yeah, my retina display gave you away. Looked pretty bad. This isn't a dig on your images or design (I really liked the ideas and design for sure)—but out of curiosity, do you find image layout easier or more difficult than CSS? I ask because if I wanted to build something like this, I'd go straight for HTML/CSS not because it's proper but because it would be faster and easier.

> Yeah, my retina display gave you away.

Well my non-retina MacBook display gave it away too. I don't know if it's the original font or the rasterization, but the body font antialiasing looks poor, or at least uncanny compared to the native one.

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