Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Neil deGrasse Tyson: If I Were President...

haydenplanetarium.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 101 posts

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: If I Were President...

#51

Post by maratd »

hooande wrote: post #16
maratd wrote: post #4

> As a scientist and educator, my goal, then, is not to become President and lead a dysfunctional electorate, but to enlighten the electorate so they might choose the right leaders in the first place. This reeks of extreme arrogance. A type very common in academia. The presumption that the masses are ignorant, while you, anointed and blessed, are simply brilliant. No. If you get off your high-horse and actually talk…

At the risk of being labelled as negative, I'm going to disagree. The majority of people just don't care. They don't care about politics, about science, about reason or about anything outside of their day to day lives and relationships. That's how it's supposed to be. As it turns out, the average person isn't brilliant, anointed or blessed (this is due to the meaning of the word "average"). Saying that everyone is "b…

> I'm noticing rampant selection bias on hn. It's important to remember that most of the people on this planet are nothing like us.

And there's the crux. There is a forum just like this one somewhere on the Internet that is entirely devoted to Justin Bieber. It probably has more users than HN.

To you and Mr. Tyson, they're ignorant twits because ...

> They don't care about politics, about science, about reason or about anything outside of their day to day lives and relationships.

To me? It's just a conflict of interest. They're different. Apples and oranges.

Are apples better than oranges? In some cases, but not in all. Anyway, I don't want to live in a world filled with only apples. Variety is the spice of life. Go spend some time with an orange.

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: If I Were President...

#52

Post by pyre »

maratd wrote: post #51
hooande wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of being labelled as negative, I'm going to disagree. The majority of people just don't care. They don't care about politics, about science, about reason or about anything outside of their day to day lives and relationships. That's how it's supposed to be. As it turns out, the average person isn't brilliant, anointed or blessed (this is due to the meaning of the word "average"). Saying that everyone is "b…

> I'm noticing rampant selection bias on hn. It's important to remember that most of the people on this planet are nothing like us. And there's the crux. There is a forum just like this one somewhere on the Internet that is entirely devoted to Justin Bieber. It probably has more users than HN. To you and Mr. Tyson, they're ignorant twits because ... > They don't care about politics, about science, about reason or abo…

1. To be fair, (I assume) most of the posts on Justin Bieber forums are from people that are not of voting age.

2. People think of them as 'ignorant twits' because they don't realize that by ignoring such things decisions that affect them are being made for them. It's too easy to find yourself in a situation you don't like because you were too busy ignoring what was going on to realize what was happening. E.g.:

  “There’s no point in acting all surprised about it. All
  the  planning charts and demolition orders have been on
  display in your local planning department on Alpha Centauri
  for fifty of your Earth years, so you’ve had plenty of time
  to lodge any formal complaint and it’s far too late to
  start making a fuss about it now.”

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: If I Were President...

#53

Post by SapphireSun »

keiferski wrote: post #41

I've had a strange idea cooking in my mind for a few years now, although I've never really fleshed it out. What if we had an AI-like system instead of representatives? Imagine this: "Pennsylvania-One" is an AI. Every day, from their smartphones or another device, PA citizens vote on issues, ranging from small to big. Using this data, "Pennsylvania-One" creates a model of what its constituents want, and then, using it…

There's at least one story by Issac Asimov about that. There was at least one computer coordinating the world. I think it was "All the Troubles of the World".

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: If I Were President...

#54

Post by derleth »

hooande wrote: post #16
maratd wrote: post #4

> As a scientist and educator, my goal, then, is not to become President and lead a dysfunctional electorate, but to enlighten the electorate so they might choose the right leaders in the first place. This reeks of extreme arrogance. A type very common in academia. The presumption that the masses are ignorant, while you, anointed and blessed, are simply brilliant. No. If you get off your high-horse and actually talk…

At the risk of being labelled as negative, I'm going to disagree. The majority of people just don't care. They don't care about politics, about science, about reason or about anything outside of their day to day lives and relationships. That's how it's supposed to be. As it turns out, the average person isn't brilliant, anointed or blessed (this is due to the meaning of the word "average"). Saying that everyone is "b…

> no amount of education can change the basics of human nature

When was the last time you saw someone nail a cat's tail to the ground and pelt it with rocks? Back... oh, not that long ago, evolutionarily speaking, that was just the height of entertainment. The absolute limit.

Now, only a few generations of First Worlders not having seven kids and getting to keep two, a few generations of public education and most people knowing how to read, a few generations of not starving because of locusts or drought or Act of Monarch, we have a population of people even the /b/-tards of which will step in to defend a cat.

It takes a long time. It is a long, slow, agonizing crawl. But we are making it.

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: If I Were President...

#56

Post by stretchwithme »

Tyson is correct in that it is not politicians that are the problem.

But I don't know that there is something inherently wrong with the voters either.

I think it is the electoral process that does not represent voter's interests. I can't select who will represent my interests. I have to pick between two false choices.

And then ALL of the power is handed to whoever wins the popularity contest. And then my concerns are ignored for four years.

Proportional representation would solve that problem. You can even use it in the executive branch (Switzerland does).

THEN Tyson could say the mistakes are our fault.

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: If I Were President...

#57

Post by MartinCron »

SapphireSun wrote: post #53
keiferski wrote: post #41

I've had a strange idea cooking in my mind for a few years now, although I've never really fleshed it out. What if we had an AI-like system instead of representatives? Imagine this: "Pennsylvania-One" is an AI. Every day, from their smartphones or another device, PA citizens vote on issues, ranging from small to big. Using this data, "Pennsylvania-One" creates a model of what its constituents want, and then, using it…

There's at least one story by Issac Asimov about that. There was at least one computer coordinating the world. I think it was "All the Troubles of the World".

Similarly, in Neon Genesis Evangelion, there were three supercomputers who independently processed all policy issues and would vote on them. "It's a form of democracy, I suppose"

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: If I Were President...

#58

Post by gizmo686 »

marshallp wrote: post #49
liber8 wrote: post #28

I find it amusing that almost every OP in this thread has cited the same quote as proof of NDT's arrogance, and then every response debates whether NDT is arrogant or voters stupid. All of this misses the actual ignorance of NDT's letter. The last half of that sentence is key: As a scientist and educator, my goal, then, is not to become President and lead a dysfunctional electorate, but to enlighten the electorate so…

The greatest group of political scientists? You're referring the founding fathers. Why didn't they institute proportional representation? Why did they have an electoral college? Why didn't they abolish slavery and institute women's vote right away? This FF worship has got to stop. It gives Republicans some slack to spew their lies about gun control and other constitution-backed tomfoolery.

It also gives us some slack to spew on about civil liberties and other constitutional tomfoolery.

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: If I Were President...

#59

Post by subsection1h »

lefthansolo wrote: post #45

I think Neil is wrong, unfortunately. It does matter who is in power, but not for the reasons that the media and political campaigns focus on. Other than the ability to veto, presidents don't legislate, they don't have that much control over the economy- although if they are ignorant enough (Bush) or obsessed with progressive agenda (Obama) that doesn't help things but we can't reasonably blame them and even the effe…

    obsessed with progressive agenda (Obama)
What elements of the progressive agenda is Obama obsessed about?

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson: If I Were President...

#60

Post by marshallp »

gizmo686 wrote: post #58
marshallp wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The greatest group of political scientists? You're referring the founding fathers. Why didn't they institute proportional representation? Why did they have an electoral college? Why didn't they abolish slavery and institute women's vote right away? This FF worship has got to stop. It gives Republicans some slack to spew their lies about gun control and other constitution-backed tomfoolery.

It also gives us some slack to spew on about civil liberties and other constitutional tomfoolery.

Like no other country has civil liberties. What does Canada or Western Europe have.
Post reply on HN